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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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Hello all! I'm new to the site and new to the y-block. My 6 year old fell in love with a '54 Crestline, so he did everything he could to earn money and we brought it home. The original 239 was replaced with a truck 292 (C2AE). It was running and looks like it may have been rebuilt recently. I pulled the motor anyway, because I wanted to tear it down to see for myself what, if anything had been done and this is what I found on the #4/8 rid journal.
The inside of the motor was spotless and all original standard size Ford parts. Anyone ever see this from what looks to be a factory engine?
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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Here are some more pics of the condition of the engine.
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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Sorry to keep going on, but I also noticed the crank counterweights on that journal have significant "damage", but no damage to the rods.
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By MoonShadow - 5 Years Ago
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May have lost a rod and got a quickie replacement for the sale. Do all the other bearing surfaces look good?
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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That's what I was thinking, lost a rod, but it was just strange that it didn't seem like it was ever apart before. Must've reused everything. The rest of the bearings are ok with one or two showing copper.
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By darrell - 5 Years Ago
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it looks like it was rebuilt not that long ago.what size is the bore.is the crank std.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 5 Years Ago
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Greetings to all: Looks like that crank at the 4 & 8 rod journal suffered some trauma for sure There is a lot of grinding that was done on the inside counter weight surfaces and the rod journal took a lot of heat to discolor it to blue temperature. I'm not an expert on crank shaft repair but perhaps heat was applied for the purpose of straightening this crank? Someone with more knowledge than I will hopefully comment. There may be an oil pressure issue here as it was stated other bearings were showing copper. Interesting that the cam shaft counterweight was retained from the 239 as that part was not used after 1955 or 56, I believe. May want to do a good investigation of everything to learn what you have. Hope this helps and good luck, JEFF........................
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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Welcome to the site.
There are a number of reasons for an engine to spin a bearing. Lack of bearing clearance is at the top of the list but add to that list inadequate oil pressure, oil level too low in the oil pan, sucking in air at the oil pump inlet, oil viscosity too high, improperly torqued rod bolts, a rod bolt or rod nut failure, out of round connecting rod big ends, incorrect bearings being used, crankshaft journals have been welded up and reground to restore dimensions but weld started flaking off, extreme rpms on the engine, detonation, too much ignition advance, etc.
I’ll suggest looking at the backs of some of the other bearings and get a feel for if the bearings are original or not. If replacement bearings, then this could have been the result of a improper bearing install. Many bearings are dated which may help to determine if those are the original bearings or not. Compare those bearing dates to the casting date on the block.
Be forewarned that any crankshaft that spins a bearing becomes ‘bent’ and must be fixed accordingly. Depending upon how far it’s bent, it may simply be as easy as turning the crankshaft undersize on both the mains and rods to get it straight again. The more severe instances require straightening the crankshaft before grinding. Be sure to have the crankshaft checked for crankshafts before having it repaired.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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When I purchased my TBird I thought my engine had been rebuilt recently as it looked fresh inside the valve covers. Soon after, a freeze plug fell out and the engine started to smoke on startup. I took the engine apart and found mismatched rods, a welded crank and a Frankenstein short block. These engines have been around for a long time. It is common for people to work on them that do not know what they are doing. These engines are also very forgiving which will hide a lot of issues and abuse. If I had your engine, I would be looking around for an untouched stock engine to rebuild. I was able to salvage my cylinder block. Everything else was ditched.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 5 Years Ago
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My thinking is that 292 cranks are not that hard to find (at least in my barn), and that crank has seen a lot of anguish. I would vote for a better crank core. Look for one locally, because shipping one would be costly.
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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Thank you all for your replies! I was told it was a recent rebuild, but I got it from a guy who found it in an abandoned storage unit he won the auction for. His info on it is sketchy at best, but we only paid $800 for the car. Anyway, I'm certainly investigating what's going on and in doing so got my hands on a 312 and some ECZ-G's. Most likely gonna send that off to the machine shop and use that stuff. FWIW, everything in the 292 is FoMoCo. I haven't mic'd anything yet, but it's certainly a head scratcher. Lol!
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By 30 coupe - 5 Years Ago
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you seem to have got your money's worth at $800. I would have paid that just for the car with no eng, or trans. car looks pretty good from what I can see.
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By miker - 5 Years Ago
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That’s pretty cool for that price if it’s anywhere near as good as it looks. Since it was originally a 239, you might want to look up some casting numbers on John Mummert’s site, and see exactly what you’ve got. Same with the parts you buy. Who knows what parts might have been carried over. My first thought is to make sure you’ve got the later (larger) water pump and timing cover. Next would be the distributor, hopefully it’s a 57 up with the centrifugal advance and not a load-o-matic. Maybe some other items others will mention. Those distributors are getting hard to find, and some sold as replacements are wrong, so don’t just turn it in as a core without making sure what’s going on.
Lots of good info at the bottom of the page in the “information center”
http://www.ford-y-block.com
Welcome to the site and have fun.
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By Daniel Jessup - 5 Years Ago
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$800? The local law enforcement must be chasing you down the street! Nice score my friend!
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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Yeah, we got a really good deal. There's some sketchy rust repair in sports and a few others that should be addressed, but the frame is solid and all the trim is there. Even with the engine issues, still a steal considering it's already been converted to 12v with a Painless harness, it's got a new clutch and radiator. As far as the distributor, it's an MSD billet.
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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Back to the internals, all original Ford parts stamped as such. Bore checked at standard with no ridge at the top of the bore?! Mains and rods both standard as well with C1TE heads, 2 barrel manifold and Holley carb. At this point, figuring out what's going on and what happened is moot. I've got a good 312 crank that mic'd up at .010" under rods and mains, so that should clean up nicely and I've got a 312 block ECZ-B that I haven't checked for cracks yet. If it checks out, my next decision is if I should turn the crank to the 292 mains, bore the C2AE block and use that or prep the ECZ-B block.
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By miker - 5 Years Ago
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Lots of decisions to make there, especially if the 292 block, or the 312 block, don’t need to be bored. Reusing (after reconditioning) the rods and pistons saves a ton of money.
I’ve got a 312 crank in a 292, and a 312 crank in a 312. Both bored, both offset ground strokers. Which ever way you go, I’d sonic check the block even if I wasn’t going to bore it. Just so you know your not starting with a bad core shift before you spend the money.
My 312 block had been line bored before, and I had to order a custom timing chain/gear set up eliminate looseness. I don’t know if those are available any more. I used studs in the main caps on the 312, since over torquing caused some cracking problems. I know that was extra caution, but it’s a 340 cid blower motor.
Deck height, align bore, head surfaces, etc are kind of how far do you want to go. Just make sure if you use the 312 crank (stock) you don’t get a one of the “orange” rear main seals. They’re really orange in color, and mine failed in under 500 miles. The current black neoprene one seems to be holding up. Ted has details on the rear main installation on his site.
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By Ted - 5 Years Ago
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MattsY (3/19/2019)
Back to the internals, all original Ford parts stamped as such. Bore checked at standard with no ridge at the top of the bore? ! Mains and rods both standard as well with C1TE heads, 2 barrel manifold and Holley carb. At this point, figuring out what's going on and what happened is moot. I've got a good 312 crank that mic'd up at .010" under rods and mains, so that should clean up nicely and I've got a 312 block ECZ-B that I haven't checked for cracks yet. If it checks out, my next decision is if I should turn the crank to the 292 mains, bore the C2AE block and use that or prep the ECZ-B block.
My vote goes towards using the 292 block with the 312 crankshaft mains turned down to the 292 size. This is dependent upon the 292 block checking out as ‘good’ as why the rod bearing spun in that block must yet be determined. Don't rule out a misaligned oil hole or other issue. The ECZ 312 blocks are notorious for having crooked cam tunnels and that just creates a lot of drama when attempting to install the camshaft. And then the smaller mains on the 292 are good for some extra horsepower over the 312 sized mains. Have you priced 312 main bearings lately? And the list goes on.
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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You guys have provided some really good info and I thank you! I myself was leaning towards turning down the mains and using the 292 block, but this just confirms that! That is of course, the block checks out.
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By montana ford man - 5 Years Ago
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That looks like the clunker I sold to that "boob" in Mayberry! Sorry, I just couldn't resist ,one of my favorite Andy Griffith episodes. A beautifull car,my 54 was a convertible in high school .too bad freight costs so much my brother has a 292 out of an old ford truck.very clean inside .he put gaskets in and rear main seal,also painted it. Sitting in the corner of his garage on an engine stand.if you were near kalispell Montana he would give you a very good deal on it.
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By MattsY - 5 Years Ago
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montana ford man (3/21/2019)
That looks like the clunker I sold to that "boob" in Mayberry! Sorry, I just couldn't resist ,one of my favorite Andy Griffith episodes. A beautifull car,my 54 was a convertible in high school .too bad freight costs so much my brother has a 292 out of an old ford truck.very clean inside .he put gaskets in and rear main seal,also painted it. Sitting in the corner of his garage on an engine stand.if you were near kalispell Montana he would give you a very good deal on it.
Well, that's the story of my life.....a day late and a couple thousand miles short. Lol! It'll all work out here I'm sure. It was just something I didn't expect to find. With all of the research I've been doing, I kinda like these little motors!
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By miker - 5 Years Ago
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Ted’s comment about the cam journals jogged my memory. Had that problem on my block. I had a non performance reason to use the block with the 56 mercury casting numbers, otherwise I’d have gone the 292 block route.
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