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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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I bought my Crown Vic with 3 Holleys on an Edelbrock 573 manifold. The front and rear carbs were blocked off. The car ran fine. My problems began when I tried to unblock the front and rear carbs. So, I pulled them off and sent them to a well known carburetor guru who specialized in old Holley and Stromberg carbs. Got them back and it was much worse. Sent them back and he said he found some mistakes and corrected them. It didn't work. I blocked off the front and real carbs and that did not help. I have called him and he says they are fine, the problem is somewhere else. I bit the bullet and bought a new 4 bbl manifold and Edelbrock 4 bbl. The car now runs fine.. I am sending them back again, but somehow I don't expect to get the issue resolved. Don't tell me to just keep the 4 bbl. I want the old fashioned tri-power set-up because I am old, stubborn, and nostalgic.
Any suggestions on where I should go now? I have over $1000 invested in those carbs.
Thanks guys
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By darrell - 5 Years Ago
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the guy didnt block of the front and back for nothing.i know lots who done the same thing.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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...sent them to a well known carburetor guru who specialized in old Holley and Stromberg carbs. Got them back and it was much worse. Sent them back and he said he found some mistakes and corrected them. It didn't work. I blocked off the front and real carbs and that did not help. I have called him and he says they are fine, the problem is somewhere else.
How can a carb be re-built (short for kitting) without either a flow-bench or live application to test and calibrate? How can one decide which calibration(s) work best for either an OEM install, swap and/or multi-carburetion? Are all three matched or unknown application?
As suggested, use all as center and go from there.
I feel your pain.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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So you got the car with the front and rear blocked and it was fine. You unblocked front and rear and it became not fine. At this point, the center carb seems to be ok and the end carbs are not.
When you say you sent them off, is that only the outer two or all three?
What exactly are the problems you experienced with the way it runs?
If all three are fully functional, then they can be tried one at a time but sometimes the end carbs are set up as secondary carbs, which would complicate that method.
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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The outer (secondary) carbs have had their idle circuits removed and when fully closed should have no air bypass, so swapping carbs around is not an option. That was done as part of the rebuild. He recommended it.
The same car that used to run fine before I sent them in for rebuild, now no longer works. SAME CARB!! That is what is so frustrating.
The engine idles roughly. If you try to give it a little throttle, it stumbles, backfires with flame coming out the carb, and usually stalls.
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By pintoplumber - 5 Years Ago
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Were the power valves removed and plugged on the end carbs?
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By DryLakesRacer - 5 Years Ago
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I deleted my post as it was of no use since all 3 carbs were not the same
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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I don't know the situation on power valves on the secondary carbs. Since I am not using them, that is a moot question for now. If and when I get it running on the center carb, I will start using the secondary carbs.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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The same car that used to run fine before I sent them in for rebuild, now no longer works. SAME CARB!! That is what is so frustrating.
Again, let me ask if all three carbs are a matched set or are they different in some way(s)?
Any I.D. Nos. on them? Can you provide a photo of the setup?
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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Given the symptoms and the fact that it was ok before the rebuild and assuming the guru really is a guru, my thought is that it simply needs to have a t least a small amount of tuning done to dial it back in. No carburetor is going to be exactly right out of the box. If the carb had been tuned before the rebuild and was returned to some baseline, by-the-book setting during rebuild, then the whole tuning process needs to be done again.
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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I am sorry I was not clear in the past. As originally purchased all 3 carbs were essentially the same with the front and rear carbs blocked. I sent all 3 in for rebuild. The rebuilder recommended that the chokes and idle circuits be removed from the secondary carbs. I don't know exactly what he did to remove the idle circuits, but he said that I would never get the engine to idle properly if the idle circuits stayed in place. He said there would be virtually no air bypass in the secondaries at idle. He said that is probably why the original owner blocked them. (He told me he did it to improve fuel economy)
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 5 Years Ago
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Ah-Hah! The idle circuits were eliminated in the "end" carbs. Is it possible that an end carb got installed in the middle? Or a missed communication with the rebuilder and he identified the wrong carb as the center one? Or a carb got mis-labelled after the rebuild? Looks like the first order of business will be to verify the center carb on the engine has idle circuits.
One more question. Do you have progressive or direct linkage?
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By PF Arcand - 5 Years Ago
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Another question? the car's a Crown Vic, so it's a 55 or 56. Does it have the original Load o Matic, vac advance only distributor setup? If it does, that's at least part of your problems, with a Tri- pwr setup. It's a known (by some) problem going back to the 60s) and I'll let someone better qualified than me explain why it won't work properly without mods.
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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I{t is a '56. It has an aftermarket distributor. There was only one carb with a choke plate so I don't think a switch is possible. The carb rebuilder explained to me about the two different vacuum outlets and I think the Holley has both. One outlet has no vacuum at idle while the other does. I discussed this with my machanic. Remember on my first post I said we replaced the tri-carbs with an Edelbrock 4bbl and it runs fine with the 4bbl.
I do not know all the details. I had a stroke and I am confined to a wheel chair down here in Florida. My car is in Michigan and I have hired a mechanic to do all the work. I think he is a good mechanic but a poor communicator. I think I am a good mechanic and I hope to get back someday and work on it myself.
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By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
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The Holley 94 will not provide the correct vacuum signal for a newer dual advance distributor unless it has been modified to do so. The builder should be able to tell you if he modified it or not.
The Edelbrock will have the correct vacuum ports for the modern distributor. However, if everything was hooked up to the 94 just the same as it was before and it no longer runs right, then it's not very likely that it has to do with the ignition. It could be a coincidence that something has happened to the ignition but it's not likely. An easy way to rule out the vacuum advance portion is to simply disconnect it and plug the ports and leave it disconnected until the issue is resolved as the vacuum advance is not required on the dual advance distributor - it is an economy feature.
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By Talkwrench - 5 Years Ago
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I would of thought that you could of had them all idling no problem [well a bit of a PITA tuning] , just use a progressive linkage, you probably wouldn't need to touch your power valves?? . maybe its why I like 97's 
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By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
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The Holley 94's, in my experience, has only one vacuum outlet. It is located in the rear of the carb, to the right (passenger) side. As mentioned above, this vacuum port does not give the proper vacuum signal for a later distributor. Plug the vacuum port and close off the vacuum line to the distributor. As was mentioned above, the distributor will operate fine without the vacuum advance. I assume that the end carbs have had the power valve removed and a plug put in their place. Are you running progressive linkage - you should be with the end carbs being modified.
Another item that I have been told regarding multiple carb set-ups. Always run the choke plates in all the carbs as they are designed to flow air with them in. Wire the end ones wide open
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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I do have the progressive linkage. All the suggestions will have to wait until spring. The tri-power set-up is off the car for now. The center carb is going back to the rebuilder with a plea from me to please, please get it right. He has a mule engine in his shop with adapters to install any carb he rebuilds to the mule engine. So I am asking him to put my carb on that engine and blip the throttle a few times. He seems like an "OK" who will stand behind his work.
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By LD-Ordie - 5 Years Ago
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So Last year, my newly purchased 55 Sedan Delivery came with a freshly rebuilt 292 and a tri power with 3 new 94's from Edelbrock. Was doing similar things that you have shared. So, I consider myself to be a fairly competent wrench with basic carb rebuild skills. I have had experience setting up several systems using 2G carbs, so I went with what has worked for me in the past. You mentioned changing out the base plates, which is good, but the rest is sketchy. I purchased a kit from Charlie Price in Florida. Came with everything needed to convert the secondaries to dumpers. Easy to instal and has worked great for several thousand miles, including 15 mpg. One thing he mentioned is the need for a fuel regulator, which I don't remember reading here. He suggested a 1-4 psi unit, which I followed up with a gauge. Being you are relying on other people to assist with your problem create's a lot of unknown variables. So I wish you luck.
https://www.parts123.com/parts123/PartFrame.asp?ZTM=cadegdha&GHOME=www.vintagespeed.com&TITLE=VINTAGE_SPEED
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By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
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All the early carbs were designed for not more than 2 1/2 PSI otherwise it may overpower the float
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By LD-Ordie - 5 Years Ago
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I adjusted mine to 2 psi. A good gauge in the system helps
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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Charlie Price is the guy doing the work on my carbs. Talked to him last week and he seemed just a little upset that he keeps seeing that same carb coming back again and again. He promised me he would put it on his test motor and check it out. Have not heard from him. I am hoping he finds something that solves my problem.
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By LD-Ordie - 5 Years Ago
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I have purchased all of my Tri-Power parts from Charlie with nothing but great results. Currently own 3 cars with his base plates, internal components, linkage, ect. They all perform flawless. So I'm no carb guru, but I have done all of the work myself by following his suggestions and basic experience. Hard to believe your having this much trouble, but I hope this time works for you.
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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Charlie called me a day or two ago. He put my carb on his test engine and said it works perfectly. Idles, accelerates, etc. He said most likely my problem is a vacuum leak somewhere. I'll just keep looking.
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By LD-Ordie - 5 Years Ago
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If you know someone with a smoke machine, it could be the easiest way to find it. I bought a good used Snap-On after spending days working an issue with no success, then a friend brought over an older Sun. 5 min. later we discovered a leak inside the lifter valley.
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By Jack Groat - 5 Years Ago
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Not familiar with a smoke machine, but I will look into it.
The carbs are off the car and it now has an Edelbrock 4 bbl and it runs fine. But I am not giving up on the 3x2 set-up.
I have explained this before and I will re-tell the situation.
The car ran fine on the center carb with the two end carbs blocked off. Upon unblocking the end carbs and putting fuel to them, they over-flowed with gasoline. So I decided to send them to Charlie Price to get rebuilt and threw the center carb in with the others even though it didn't appear to need it. When I got them back, I could not get the engine off idle. Backfired when trying to open the throttle and then it would die. Same manifold, same everything.
You don't have to reply to this, because it has been hashed over earlier on this post. We have all had those mystery ailments that took us months (or even years) to figure out. I will eventually figure this one out.
For those who have mentioned that these Holleys are sensitive to fuel pressure, I have a pressure gauge and pressure regulator and the pressure is set at 2 PSI, as recommended by Charlie.
Thanks for all the comments guys. This is a great website.
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By Florida_Phil - 5 Years Ago
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I sent my three 94s to Charlie two weeks ago. The last I spoke with him he was going to call me the next day with an estimate to rebuild them. I haven't heard back from him, so I called and left a message. Still nothing. I'm beginning to wonder about him.
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By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
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Lot of stories about Charlie - some swear by him, others swear at him.
Florida_Phil (3/8/2019)
I sent my three 94s to Charlie two weeks ago. The last I spoke with him he was going to call me the next day with an estimate to rebuild them. I haven't heard back from him, so I called and left a message. Still nothing. I'm beginning to wonder about him.
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