256 with 272 heads from factory?


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By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
I acquired a 56 F100 frame with a Y block engine. Decoding the frame VIN it indicates the truck was equipped with a 272. 2V. The engine block is cast with EBY (256) the heads are cast with ECZ (272). Pulled the distributor and it has 14 tooth gear and hex drive. Is this a 272 engine that possibly cam with truck or down the line did someone put 272 heads on a 256 block. What else can I do ie drop oil pan, pull cylinder head to help verify what I have?
By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
The Casting # EBY is 1954 Mercury 256. Looks like someone swapped Motor and installed 272 Heads. You can get more ID Information by going to John Mummerts Site using the "Links" at top of Page.
By darrell - 5 Years Ago
pull of the flywheel pan and check the crank flange.the 3.3 crank 272 and 292 will have a half moon cutout and opposite will have a recess cut out of the crank.its about an inch long and not very deep the 256 crank will have the half moon only.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
The trans had already been removed so if I understand you you I should be able to look thru the hole in the bell housing at the rear crank flange. I’m currently looking at some pictures online of crank flanges. Also from reading if someone did put 272 heads in 256 block sealing between intake and head would be critical. Looks like a 272 has .030 more stroke as well. I’m not even sure if this engine ran. Could have been someone swapped parts couldn’t get it to run and gave up? I got the frame and engine for free so nothing lost. Thanks for advice I’ll start digging more into it tomorrow.
By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
There were two 239's, one cast in DEARBORN (DIF) and the other in CLEVELAND (CF).

The DIF 239 was the oddball engine and saw assembly in the PASS CAR. The CF 239 was a different design, forerunner of the 272-292.and was used in LT. The 256 was used in PI, MERC (both 1954)  and LT and HT (1954-1955). The 272 was introduced in 1955 as a running change, although cataloging shows it as 1956.

There is where the confusion is.
By yalincoln - 5 Years Ago
they still used 256's in busses in 56!
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Ok since the engine isn’t rotating (yet) I pulled the bell housing, clutch and fly wheel. After all that looking at crank flange it appears to be a 256. Bummer. I also noticed the drivers side head has a different casting number. E1N or something like that. I will continue to look it over but not sure if I want to invest any money in this one. I have a 351, 460 and a Cadillac 429 as options as well.
By darrell - 5 Years Ago
someone might want it.you can make a 272 or 292 out of this block.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
I’ll need to clean it up, check cylinder bore size and give it some thought. I’ve got plenty of metal work to do on the 56 F100 cab first.
By pintoplumber - 5 Years Ago
Your 256 is the same bore as a 272, it has a 3.10 stroke instead of a 3.30 stroke. To turn it into a 272 you would need a 272/292 crank and 272 pistons because the pin height is different on the 256 pistons.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Ok with the difference in the stroke, if someone were to just put 272 heads on a stock 256 2V it seams it wouldn’t be as efficient. There would be a .020 difference at TDC correct? Whatever the PO did it must have ran because there is plenty of grease and grime under valve covers and around head to indicate miles were put on engine in this configuration. I assume the head could have been shaved? I need to unstick engine any way. Marvel Mystery oil in cylinders let it soak a few days?
By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
Everything else equal, if only heads are swapped, then clearance will remain the same.
By pintoplumber - 5 Years Ago
Starlifter (1/23/2019)
Ok with the difference in the stroke, if someone were to just put 272 heads on a stock 256 2V it seams it wouldn’t be as efficient. There would be a .020 difference at TDC correct? Whatever the PO did it must have ran because there is plenty of grease and grime under valve covers and around head to indicate miles were put on engine in this configuration. I assume the head could have been shaved? I need to unstick engine any way. Marvel Mystery oil in cylinders let it soak a few days?




Because of the difference in pin height the 256 piston sits up higher in the cylinder ending up at the same point as the other engines.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Y Block learning curve. This is hurting my head. Of course there seams to be some confusion on the internet not helping me. So there were changes to the 256 between 1954 and 1956? I read the 256 intake wouldn’t work with 272 heads because of port mismatch. I need a Y Block code breaker I guess.
By pintoplumber - 5 Years Ago
It depends if the block was made in Cleveland or Dearborn.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
So if the block casting number is on the driver side it is a Cleveland block?
By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
I'll throw something in here - I thought the 256 was a one year only engine, 1954.  In 55, Ford only continued the 239, made at a different plant and conformed to the 272/292 specs such as cam journal size, oil pump drive, etc.  Am I wrong??  Was the 256 continued into 55?
By Ted - 5 Years Ago
paul2748 (1/23/2019)
I'll throw something in here - I thought the 256 was a one year only engine, 1954.  In 55, Ford only continued the 239, made at a different plant and conformed to the 272/292 specs such as cam journal size, oil pump drive, etc.  Am I wrong??  Was the 256 continued into 55?

Both the 239 and 256 engines were available in the Ford pickups in 1955.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Ok other than having a 100% correct engine or something like that was the engine in it when I bought it and it runs ok, what would be a reason to keep a 239 or 256? I’m not asking to disparage anyone or specific engine I just keep reading for individuals and some publications “you don’t want either of these engines”. Is this mainly because of early changes in design which effects part availablity both original and aftermarket? Could it be based on past hearsay? A good number of people can’t leave an engine alone and will always look for ways to improve a factory design. Trust me I have a 429 Cadillac engine. Pretty impressive HP and torque numbers. Virtually no performance parts available. Everyone says don’t waste your time/money on it, step up to a 500 cubic inch. So after all this rambling is there a problem with the 256 other than it doesn’t have the performance potential as it’s bigger cousins?
By darrell - 5 Years Ago
good as the next.these things pulled heave trucks up to i think f700
By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
'54s have a lot of unique parts which makes it more difficult / expensive to do even a basic rebuild.  '55 on is more or less interchangeable so most parts are easier to find.

Because of the difficulty, a '54 engine is best for a '54 vehicle that needs to be correct.  For '55, if no major work if required then it could be worth using but say you need something major like a block or crank, then it may make more sense to simply step up to a 292.  As far as power goes, about 1.4hp / ci is probably a reasonable maximum for a street hot rod so that makes a 256 a little over 350hp although the bigger brothers make it easier to achieve that level of performance with more street friendly package.  So the bottom line, as you might expect, is that it boils down to what you want.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
So if I understand all the information the 256, although production began in 54 changes were made over the remaining few years of production. If this is true there should be a date code on the block. I saw two numbers so far. Right side aft was 49 B. Behind fly wheel was E6.
By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
They all have date codes.  The 49B looks like a date code - that's usually within a casting feature that looks like an oval plate with a screw head on each end.  49B is September 2 1954, which is probably plausible for a '55 model year block.
By Ted - 5 Years Ago
Starlifter (1/24/2019)
Ok other than having a 100% correct engine or something like that was the engine in it when I bought it and it runs ok, what would be a reason to keep a 239 or 256? I’m not asking to disparage anyone or specific engine I just keep reading for individuals and some publications “you don’t want either of these engines”. Is this mainly because of early changes in design which effects part availablity both original and aftermarket? Could it be based on past hearsay? A good number of people can’t leave an engine alone and will always look for ways to improve a factory design. Trust me I have a 429 Cadillac engine. Pretty impressive HP and torque numbers. Virtually no performance parts available. Everyone says don’t waste your time/money on it, step up to a 500 cubic inch. So after all this rambling is there a problem with the 256 other than it doesn’t have the performance potential as it’s bigger cousins?

I’ m not a particular fan of the ’54 engines simply due to the one year only parts that were being used.  Some of those specific parts includes camshafts, camshaft bearings, oil pumps, oil pump drives, distributors, timing covers, water pumps, fuel pumps, and damper pulleys.  Any 1955 or newer Y has most of the parts at least being interchangeable so all of these are good candidates for an economical rebuild.
  
In defense of those early engines, don’t discount those smaller engines for just being good daily drivers.  I had a ’54 Victoria I drove for years with a 239 Y-Block and it was good solid transportation with more than enough power to get out of its own way.  At the same time, I had a ’56 Customline Victoria with a 406/428/427TP that filled my need for speed.  I currently have a stock ’50 Ford with a 239 Flattie and at its rated 100 HP, it’s fun to drive and very torquey from a start.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
So September 54 falls in the either way category. I’ll try to get some more numbers, pictures and/or measurements this weekend. Besides numbers off the intake what else should I concentrate on? Easiest to hardest. Things like oil pump has three bolts instead of four etc. i don’t mind pulling it completely apart just don’t want to do it if not necessary. If I’m going to use a Y block I’m my 56 F100 you know I’m going to want it look and sound good and pull out of the gas station like it’s got some power at least for the first 150 feet.
By charliemccraney - 5 Years Ago
As far as determining what the block is, if the heads are in fact 272 heads, then odds are that it is a '55 or newer block as it takes significant work to make later heads work on an early block.  Unless someone knows precisely when the cutoff was for the end of '54 model year casting and the beginning of '55 model year casting, the only way you could tell is by removing the heads.to compare the mating surfaces and look for signs of modification.  Most everything that you can see on the assembled engine can be swapped so those numbers and dates may not help to answer the question.
By paul2748 - 5 Years Ago
Like Ted, I had a 54 Ford which I used a number of years as a daily driver and it was a very good running car.  Memory is a little dim on it now, but I don't remember it giving me any major trouble. It did have a replacement engine when I got it (used I believe) so I can't say for sure it was a 239.  My first car was 49 Tudor (flathead 239, 100HP) that also was a good running car but it rusted out on me.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Nasty nasty engine. Pulled both cylinder heads. Both are marked ECZ-C which should be 1956 272. I didn’t see any obvious modifications to the block/head. It is dirty and sat outside before I got it and has obvious water intrusion. I guess my next step will be pull the engine off the frame put it on stand remove crank and pistons. If it looks like it can be saved then I may look for a 272 crank.






By carl - 5 Years Ago
That head has a later model temperature sending unit.,also I have a few 272,292 cranks if you need one.Where are you located  Carl 
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Located in Byron Georgia which is right in the middle of the state just below Macon.
By Ted - 5 Years Ago
Starlifter (1/26/2019)
....If it looks like it can be saved then I may look for a 272 crank.[

If planning on having the rotating assembly balanced, go with a 292 crankshaft as the counterweights are heavier than those on the 272 and will be easier to balance.  Many of the newer replacement pistons are heavier than the originals so having a heavier crankshaft leaves it more open to drilling on the counterweights in order to balance it rather than adding weight to the crankshaft.
By Starlifter - 5 Years Ago
Excellent advice sir. Now I just need a little luck with the clean up of the block and cylinders. IYO what is the max on cylinder bore on a 256 block?
By Ted - 5 Years Ago
Starlifter (1/27/2019)
Excellent advice sir. Now I just need a little luck with the clean up of the block and cylinders. IYO what is the max on cylinder bore on a 256 block?

For most Y’s, 0.060” over is generally considered safe.  If considering more than that, then sonic testing is highly recommended to get a feel for actual cylinder wall thicknesses and what the core shift looks like.  There are quite a few 272 blocks out there that have been bored 0.125” over to make them standard bore 292’s but not everyone of those was a successful high mileage engine.  Sonic testing opens up the option to offset bore the cylinders so that the cylinder wall thickness is more uniform all the way around.