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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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Took the car out first time self propelled since the early 80`s.
Thing I noticed is transmission shifts great doesn't feel like its slipping but when I come to a stop the transmission falls out of gear and whines in neutral like its low on fluid.
I already when I put the Holley 4000 back on I adjusted the bell crank and transmission rod to the book. I have it currently set 3 turns counter clockwise from internal stop of the transmission which it states do not go more than 3 turns.
This to me feels like a line pressure issue and I am wondering would it hurt the transmission or driveability if I do some trial and error and go half turn to one turn at a time to increase line pressure to keep it in gear when I come to a stop?
What makes it real odd to me is it whines going into gear and I can force it into gear by going into low but if I shift to drive it will stay in gear as long as I want. this dropping out of gear only happens when I am slowing down coming to a stop.
Aside from that down shifts great and shifts properly. just need to figure out the stumble off idle where the carb wont take fuel but that isn't related to this transmission problem. Want to address this issue first.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 5 Years Ago
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I read all the posts on Fordbarn about your question. There are several good replies, but no one mentioned the operation of the hydraulic system. When you are in drive and come to a stop, the transmission is trying to go into 2nd (remember it normally takes off in 2nd), which means the front clutch and front band should apply. If either one doesn't apply, the transmission freewheels. When you manually shift it to low, it uses the front clutch and REAR band. Since it now goes into a gear, then the front clutch probably stays applied in both modes. Therefore, the front band is most likely not applying. Those on Fordbarn that suggested an overhaul are on the right track, especially with 155, 000 miles. The whine you hear is probably the fluid pressure control valve in the valve body. My old mind seems to recall a Ford service bulletin from back in the day that addresses it, but I could be wrong.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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Hoosier Hurricane (1/7/2019)
I read all the posts on Fordbarn about your question. There are several good replies, but no one mentioned the operation of the hydraulic system. When you are in drive and come to a stop, the transmission is trying to go into 2nd (remember it normally takes off in 2nd), which means the front clutch and front band should apply. If either one doesn't apply, the transmission freewheels. When you manually shift it to low, it uses the front clutch and REAR band. Since it now goes into a gear, then the front clutch probably stays applied in both modes. Therefore, the front band is most likely not applying. Those on Fordbarn that suggested an overhaul are on the right track, especially with 155, 000 miles. The whine you hear is probably the fluid pressure control valve in the valve body. My old mind seems to recall a Ford service bulletin from back in the day that addresses it, but I could be wrong.
Thanks for the reply.
What is confusing to me is how it only does this when I come to a stop while driving.
If I start the car now and put it in drive it will whine for about 5 seconds and go into gear and stay in gear.
Driving how ever coming to a stop it just went into neutral basically and whined and stayed whining while sitting still like it was low on fluid.
I just wish I could figure out what I could do to make it useable so I wont ruin a rebuilt Holley 4000 or another battery with having the car sit.
I contacted a few local transmission shops one replied back that a rebuild would be $2,500 for this transmission with me pulling the transmission out myself. But said it would be a 7 to 8 week turn around as they have to ship it to Jasper for rebuilding.
I emailed Jasper just now to see how much they charge for rebuilding as I honestly believe $2,500 is too much money for a rebuild on this transmission when a rebuild kit is only $150. I figured the transmission rebuild would be around $1,000 maybe $1,200 but surely not over $1,500. I can buy a new rebuilt C6 transmission for my 82 F150 truck for $2,500.
I have one other last shot I will be calling a local shop by the name of Timeless Texas Classics they are off US 71 not far from where I will be moving to. Going to call him up and see if he can do the transmission for me or if he can recommend someone. Also want to get a price from him if he does rebuilds himself.
I just will do like Charlie from Charlies Transmissions has recommended to me by making sure they use more modern paper style clutches in the rebuild so I can run Dextron transmission fluid.
If I remember to I will try to get a video tonight or tomorrow showing how it goes into gear and stays in gear in D when sitting still to show what its doing that is causing me to be totally confused on how it can slip out of gear in D in one situation and not the other. Causing me lots of headaches for sure.
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By oldcarmark - 5 Years Ago
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You might get a Shop Manual for that Year Fordomatic. Step by Step Instructions on overhauling them. They are very simple compared to what they are using now.
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By mjs - 5 Years Ago
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I have the 56-57 Ford tranny manual. In print plus a scanned version. It has a great trouble shooting guide. There is also a specific procedure for the linkage adjustment.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 5 Years Ago
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Part of that $2500 overhaul job is the shipping costs to and from Jasper.
Don't try to over think the inconsistency of the transmission. During an overhaul, all most likely hardened seals will be replaced, and the control valves will be cleaned and made to move freely. Sticky valves and hardened seals are just a couple of things that could cause your problem. There may even bee more than one cause.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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Hoosier Hurricane (1/7/2019)
Part of that $2500 overhaul job is the shipping costs to and from Jasper. Don't try to over think the inconsistency of the transmission. During an overhaul, all most likely hardened seals will be replaced, and the control valves will be cleaned and made to move freely. Sticky valves and hardened seals are just a couple of things that could cause your problem. There may even bee more than one cause.
Possibly. But my boss called up the transmission shop we use at work and they told him they work on old transmissions too they are currently rebuilding a old Packard transmission. Said for him to tell me that if my transmission doesn't need any hard parts like bands or pumps a simple rebuild would be about $800.
Im going to give them a ring as I might go this route.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 5 Years Ago
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I doubt that the rear band would need replaced, it is only applied in low and reverse, and the drum is usually not spinning when those gears are chosen, so no wear. From the discussion on Fordbarn, I would suggest that your front band is worn out or the servo seals are shot.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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Hoosier Hurricane (1/8/2019)
I doubt that the rear band would need replaced, it is only applied in low and reverse, and the drum is usually not spinning when those gears are chosen, so no wear. From the discussion on Fordbarn, I would suggest that your front band is worn out or the servo seals are shot.
Thats what i figured or at the very least the band needs adjustment considering i see its listed transmission is to be serviced at like 15,000 mile intervals and it hasnt been serviced in nearly 80,000 miles.
If i have a slow spell today at work like yesterday im going to call up transmission wholesale which is who we use and work verify the $800 price without hard parts and see if they can give me an estimate for a rebuild with the bands. At least ill know about what im looking at and if its something i can swing to have done now or if its something that will have to wait.
Ive seen it said to use Type F but ive seen it also said quite a bit more that the friction modifiers in type f will eat up the clutchs at an accelerated rate.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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I also forgot to mention from the stories ive been told my grandfather used to drive this car with the foot to the floor. Don't know if that's a figure of speech or if he literally drove the car floored. Im waiting how ever on a call from transmission wholesaler. The guy I need to talk with that will be cutting me a deal since where I work we send all the transmissions there was busy on the other line.
Hopefully the cost for the bands wont be too much more money cause Im thinking about borrowing money till I get back in the swing of things with work after the holidays and get my money saved up again.
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By mjs - 5 Years Ago
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The shop manual shows Type A fluid. Dexron should be a replacement for it.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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Thanks for the reply. Will probably just run Dexeon/Mercon after the rebuild. I was loading the engine up making some carb idle mixture adjustments and it feels like second wanted to slip a bit.
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By KULTULZ - 5 Years Ago
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DEXRON III is the current DEXRON.
FORD discontinued their version of DEXRON, MERCON.
MERCON V is a synthetic which replaced earlier versions of MERCON.
I am sure the re-builder will give you info as to what is required for make-up/service.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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KULTULZ (1/12/2019)
DEXRON III is the current DEXRON. FORD discontinued their version of DEXRON, MERCON. MERCON V is a synthetic which replaced earlier versions of MERCON. I am sure the re-builder will give you info as to what is required for make-up/service.
Correct. I am going to ask the old timer when he has room to do the rebuild what he recommends to run in it.
I need to email this other guy ask him about the clutch drum hes selling for $90 if its a new unit or if its a used unit as it doesn't state on his site.
Considering how I power braked the car I felt the transmission slip some so the old timer might be right that it might need a clutch drum as well.
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By Cliff - 5 Years Ago
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I would try a service and adjustment, the sound you hear maybe a plugged filter.
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By Rusty_S85 - 5 Years Ago
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Cliff (1/12/2019)
I would try a service and adjustment, the sound you hear maybe a plugged filter.
Ironically that's what I was talking with my dad about just now. Was saying with how I felt it slip and the fact that the transmission manual states transmission band adjustment to be done every 15,000 miles seems to tell me I might be able to get away with just a simple adjustment if the band isn't smoked.
Last adjustment I have listed in my grandfather`s notepad that was in the ash tray indicates the bands were adjusted at 75,600 miles on August 2, 1963. No other listing up to 1980s with a transmission service mentioned.
As of now at 155,000 miles the transmission has gone almost 80,000 miles with no service. Considering this notepad has things like points, anti freeze change, rear axle oil change, and oil and filter changes I don't think he would have failed to write down when the transmission was serviced but yet write it down once though.
So I was telling my dad I think I am going to just simply take the car to the old timer and ask him what does he think. Give him the information I have and see if he thinks a simple band adjustment and service would be enough to keep it on the road or if he recommends a overhaul. I already had my eyes set on a overhaul but if a band adjustment is all it needs I hate to have the old guy pull the transmission out if it doesn't have to come out.
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By Cliff - 5 Years Ago
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That's a 1 hour job you can do, 1 adjustment is on the outside of the case, the other is inside, a plugged filter will do just as you describe, adjust the kick down as per the manual, do not just start changing it and taking it for a drive.
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