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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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I inherited a 1957 Ranchero with a 312 Y-block. I'm having troubles getting it to run right. Put on a new distributor cap, cleaned the points and rotor, cleaned the plugs, new plug wires, set the dwell, and new fuel filter from the pump to the carburetor. The idle is good but it wants to slightly stall when I give it gas from a stop and then erratically cuts out. I tried to set the timing but the distributor is locked in. I have tried wd40 and PB blaster for a week. The only modification I can find is the original carburetor.
Tedward
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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Keep soaking the Distributor for a few more Days. Try moving it with the engine fully warmed up. Heat expansion should free it up. Not an unusual problem if the Distributor hasn't been moved in Years. Have you verified that the timing is advancing as the RPM increases? Use a timing Light and see if the Timing marks change. Maybe the Advance Mechanism is seized from lack of use.
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By darrell - 6 Years Ago
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sounds like your carb.
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By 1960fordf350 - 6 Years Ago
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Suggestions are helpful. I wouldn't mess with the timing anymore till you find out if the carb is plugged up. Or if the accelerator pump has failed. What carb is on it?
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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The carb s an Edelbrock 1406.,
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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I'm going to get a rebuild kit for the carburetor and not worry about the timing for now but, keep soaking it. The vacuum advance is working. And, thanks for the help.
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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TIP-IN HESITATION (Old Tech)
1) Accel Pump - Diaphragm and/or ADJ
2) Vacuum Advance - Operation -
Vacuum Source - Canister Integrity - Breaker Plate Movement
3) Manifold Vacuum Leak
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By Gene Purser - 6 Years Ago
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My experience with a stuck distributor: I was working on a relative's car with a 302. The distributor timing needed adjusting but was stuck. I soaked and tapped and twisted for about 2 weeks while I was working on other things, with no help. I put a strap around it and lifted the car off the ground with a hoist, still stuck. Finally, I thought of my air chisel. The second burst it popped out of the engine. If all else fails, hit it with a blunt tool in an air chisel. I might ding up the base of the distributor, but it will loosen it.
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By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago
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Sounds like this engine has been sitting for a long time. If the distributor is that stuck in the block, I'll bet the vacuum advance is frozen as well. This could be easily verified with a timing light. When you finally pull out the distributor, the oil pump rod will most likely be sticking out the bottom of it. If this happens, the clip has fallen into the pan. You will most likely need to pull the pan to clean it out. The engine probably needs a value job too. Is your intention to get the car running so you can sell it or do you want it to be reliable? You may get it driveable without a lot of effort. Making it reliable will require some effort and expense. If your car is an original 312 Ranchero, it has some value. It also would have come with a Holley 4 barrel carb. The vin would have a "D" engine code. Check the vin.
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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The vin# is G7RF204909. We want to keep it and use it as a back up car, it'll get driven once a month 10 mile round trip. It did sit for 11 years in a garage. I have the original carb.
I rebuilt the carburetor with a new kit and it still runs bad (a lot of cutting out, no back firing though).
Getting really frustrated.
Tedward
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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If its been sitting that Long it is possible U have some stuck Valves or maybe even Pushrods that have fallen out. Take off the Rocker Covers and check that all Pushrods are in place. Fire it up and make sure all Valves are operating properly.Bringing something back to Life after 10 Years is going to try your Patience Sometimes. Stick with it.
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By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago
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Have you checked the gas tank for debris? You could have crap in the tank that shits off the fuel supply at the outlet. Once the engine shuts off, the debris settles back int the tank until the pumps starts to pull fuel out
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By NoShortcuts - 6 Years Ago
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Tedward. This is coming from someone who is o-l-d, deliberate and calculating. I have not always been this way. Most of Murphy's Law I've personally experienced.
Being patient I've found to be GooD advice. Personally, I wouldn't have even tried to run your engine without dropping the tank for clean-out and cleaning out the fuel lines. All old neoprene fuel lines and the fuel pump diaphragm are suspect to internal deterioration that can cause problems. And then there's the components in the carburetor that can be affected by sitting for time with fuel evaporating and leaving residue deposits. Ugh!
I'd suggest that you weigh HOW and WHERE the vehicle with the engine you've acquired has been stored for this extended time period.
This may not be what you'd like to do, but consider taking the engine apart enough to lubricate parts so that damage is not done to cylinders, piston rings, lifter bores, rocker arm shafts, or valve guides in trying to getting it running for use.
My experience is that haste does not buy you much. IF I were buying the vehicle from you, I'd want to know IF the engine crankshaft can be manually rotated through two rotations. I'd be happier obtaining the vehicle without it having been run for fear that more damage would be caused by running it after it has sat for such an extended period.
'57 Fords had first letters in VIN code that identified the engine . . .
A - 223 cubic inch 6 cylinder
B - 272 y-block
C - 292 y-block
D - 312 y-block with a single 4 barrel carb
E - 312 y-block equipped with two Holley 4000 carburetors
F - 312 y-block supercharged with a single Holley 4000 carburetor
I suspect that your vehicle data plate has a C that you are reading as a G
In trying to verify if your vehicle has its original engine (without checking the rear crank flange, the cylinder bore, or the crank main caps) look to see IF it has the
- G heads (all 272, 292, & 312 without the supercharger used them; ECZ-G casting markings on the heads suggest they may be original application)
- engine block casting number ECZ 6015-C (all 292 and 312 '57 blocks used this casting number; this would suggest the engine may be original application)
Your approach in reviving your '57 is not wrong, it just is not what has worked well for me with engines I was planning to keep for my own use or rebuild.
Best Wishes!
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks NoShortcuts for the advice. The car was stored in a garage in Spokane, Washington. It was my father in laws. My wife's brother had the gas tank and pump were replaced with ones. I replaced the filter between the pump and carburetor. It ran OK and then it went down hill running poorly. I replaced the plug wires, distributor cap and cleaned the plugs that didn't help. Rebuilt the carb yesterday and that didn't help. The timing advance is working. Dwell is at 26 degrees. Timing is at 12 degrees with a stuck distributor. I'm getting a spark to each cylinder. The spark is yellow, is that good? I will check to see if all the valves are working.
Tedward
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By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago
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noshortcuts Posted -
"Being patient I've found to be GooD advice. Personally, I wouldn't have even tried to run your engine without dropping the tank for clean-out and cleaning out the fuel lines. All old neoprene fuel lines and the fuel pump diaphragm are suspect to internal deterioration that can cause problems. And then there's the components in the carburetor that can be affected by sitting for time with fuel evaporating and leaving residue deposits. Ugh!"
You know something? That's some of the best advice I have ever come across ...
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By Tedster - 6 Years Ago
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Tedward (11/9/2018)
The spark is yellow, is that good? Tedward
No.
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By darrell - 6 Years Ago
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pull both rocker covers and see if the pushrods are in place.an engine that has been sitting can stick valves.check your vacumn as well
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By darrell - 6 Years Ago
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i didnt see the second page.
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By Daniel Jessup - 6 Years Ago
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Tedward (11/4/2018)
I inherited a 1957 Ranchero with a 312 Y-block. I'm having troubles getting it to run right. Put on a new distributor cap, cleaned the points and rotor, cleaned the plugs, new plug wires, set the dwell, and new fuel filter from the pump to the carburetor. The idle is good but it wants to slightly stall when I give it gas from a stop and then erratically cuts out. I tried to set the timing but the distributor is locked in. I have tried wd40 and PB blaster for a week. The only modification I can find is the original carburetor. Tedward
I would think you need to replace the points and the condenser with quality units. Just my two cents. Once that distributor is free, I would suggest pulling it out completely, check for wear, check the vacuum advance, and replace the points and condenser. Then install on #1 TDC and time accordingly. If you have good, clean fuel getting to the carb, and you just rebuilt your carb, the easiest check on limiting the RPM increase of your engine would be the fuel delivery and the spark (and volume/timing of same). Compression may not be what you need it to be, but even with less than optimal compression you should not be "cutting out" as you say.
The main reason I am thinking ignition components is because of your word "erratically".
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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Ok, I checked the push rods and valves and they all work. Out of curiosity I hooked up the timing light to number one plug wire and watched the flashes and noticed that it would miss one occasionally, did the same with #2,#3,#4 wires and noticed the same behavior. I'm guessing I need to replace the points, rotor, and condenser next?
Tedward
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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Replaced the points, rotor, condenser, and plugs. It now idles smoothly and doesn't cut out at all. And now timing is at 8 degrees.
Thanks for the help.
Next fix, I noticed the temperature gauge has stopped working. It did work earlier. Trying to locate the sensor. Is it on the side of the block or in the top of the intake manifold? A lot of the wires have been spliced with different colored wires and I'm having troubles tracing them.
Also, are there any wiring diagrams for the radio? The diagrams I have found don't have the radio included.
Tedward
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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Sender Unit should be on the inside edge of Head towards the back near the Firewall. It may have One Terminal or 2. Only One is used. Should be a feed Wire from the Firewall. The Radio should have a Power Feed with an Inline Fuse in it.That comes from the Accessory Position on Ignition Switch. Second Wire from the Radio is for the Light when Headlights are on. Should be a live Connector under Dash when the Headlights are on. May be other Wires plugged in together. Use a Test Light to find it . Should be Live only when Headlights are on. Output for Speaker is a Pin Type Plug on the Side of Radio. 2 Conductor Wire. Hopefully no One has messed with Wiring under Dash. Keep in mind these Radios are Tube Type and take a few Minutes to Warm up. They don't come on right away. If no Sound at first just wait a few Minutes. There's a really good Source for Wiring Diagram on Ebay. Listing # 362502429642. I bought 2 for my 56 and buddy;'s 56. Original colors used for Wiring and big enough that You can clearly see where Wires go. Very useful especially if Someone has messed with your Wiring.
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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Thanks Supercharged, the wiring under the dash is a mess. There are about five wires just hanging with plugs on the ends and two wires coming from the radio unhooked. I have a friend that repairs and builds tube amps if the radio doesn't work he would love to work on it. I will check out that ebay listing.
Tedward
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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I ordered the diagram. Should get it Thursday.
Found the temperature sensor. Thanks
Working on the speedometer cable. Tried to pull it out of the transmission and comes out about a quarter inch and stops. Is that normal or is it stuck? I don't want to force it.
New Guy
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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Probably stuck...Once You remove the retaining clip on the transmission Case there's nothing else to keep it from coming out. Try spraying some penetrating type oil into the hole in Case. You can grasp the outer cable and try and Wiggle it out. There's a Rubber "O" Ring around the end Piece of the Cable.which may be why its not coming out easily. Spray it and try it.
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By Rusty_S85 - 6 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (12/6/2018)
Sender Unit should be on the inside edge of Head towards the back near the Firewall. It may have One Terminal or 2. Only One is used. Should be a feed Wire from the Firewall. The Radio should have a Power Feed with an Inline Fuse in it.That comes from the Accessory Position on Ignition Switch. Second Wire from the Radio is for the Light when Headlights are on. Should be a live Connector under Dash when the Headlights are on. May be other Wires plugged in together. Use a Test Light to find it . Should be Live only when Headlights are on. Output for Speaker is a Pin Type Plug on the Side of Radio. 2 Conductor Wire. Hopefully no One has messed with Wiring under Dash. Keep in mind these Radios are Tube Type and take a few Minutes to Warm up. They don't come on right away. If no Sound at first just wait a few Minutes. There's a really good Source for Wiring Diagram on Ebay. Listing # 362502429642. I bought 2 for my 56 and buddy;'s 56. Original colors used for Wiring and big enough that You can clearly see where Wires go. Very useful especially if Someone has messed with your Wiring.
Yep but if his radio has sat for a long time it might need to be recapped like mine.
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By Tedward - 6 Years Ago
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There is a fuse holder on the radio power line with no fuse in it, any idea what size fuse I should use?
Also need to replace the speedo cable. Where would a good source be?
New Guy
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By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago
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The Fuse should be 7.5. Speedo Cables were interchangeable for many Years from 1957-about 1970. Only real Difference was the Length, There's a good One on Ebay for $22.00.292825486115. Just check the Length. That One is 84" but listed for 1957 Passenger Car. If You don't have a Shop Manual You really should get One. Lot of Information including Radio and Speedo. I bought One from Rock Auto for my 56. Better Price than many I have seen listed elsewhere.
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