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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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Hello,
I picked up a 56 Tbird about three years ago and it’s been sitting Ever since. It didn’t come with the motor and transmission and looked like someone had installed something else at one time due to the custom welded motor mounts. I just picked up a low miles 1955 Mercury 292 with Merc- O-Matic from a fellow who was going total hot rod and was wondering what I would need to do to put this engine and transmission into my Thunderbird ? Original motor was 312/automatic according to firewall tag and transmission cross member is still intact. Any suggestions and help is greatly appreciated thanks
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By darrell - 7 Years Ago
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a lot of t bird stuff needed.base, timing cover a truck one will fit, front mount water pump spacer.a lot of other parts but that will let you get it in.
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks. What is a base?
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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I wonder if the passenger car damper, and water pump without the spacer would work if one of Mummert's Alternator brackets were used.
It definitely won't work if "correct" is the goal.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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Just off the top of my head
Tbird or truck front cover. Or the aluminum one if Mummert has it in stock.
Tbird front engine mount
Tbird rear sump oil pan-the truck one won’t clear the steering I believe.
Tbird steady rest side mounts and rods. I think these are available, or could be readily fabricated
Tbird thermostat mount. Mummert may have these in aluminum.
Water pump spacer. Some bird owners have done away with this and just spaced the pulley out 1 inch. They are also available.
Tbird drivers side exhaust manifold is different and unique. Or headers
As mentioned, an alternator bracket or a bird generator bracket.
You’ll have to block off the front oil breather, and modify a valley pan for the rear draft tube. Perfect time to fit a PCV system.
I don’t know about the throttle linkage/transmission kick down, but it can probably be modified if it came with the new unit.
The bird distributor has a tach drive, but a 3 3/8” inch electric can be modified to fit. This is another upgrade chance to fit a 57 up distributor, and possibly a more modern carb.
The oil pan with the pickup and the front mount are probably the toughest to source, but they’re out there. If your a good welder you could fab them.
You’ll need a bird or aftermarket air cleaner that clears the hood.
So it won’t be a restoration unless you go to some lengths, but a drivable car is doable.
I’m assuming the Merc trans is the same as to the rear mount as a fordo.
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By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago
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"I’m assuming the Merc trans is the same as to the rear mount as a fordo."
Now that is a good question as the MOM had a larger main case. And will the MOM fit within the BIRD tunnel?
Now where is that MERC MPC I need but keep forgetting to order ...
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 7 Years Ago
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What are your intentions for the car? If "correct" as Charlie mentioned, then you have a few parts to obtain. The above mentioned timing cover and water pump spacer, T-Bird only vibration damper/pulley, water pump pulley, generator pulley. The Bird used a tach drive distributor, the left manifold is shaped different to clear the steering column. A T-Bird oil pan is needed, it is rear sump. Thermostat housing is also T-Bird only. T-Bird had a motor mount in front, under the damper, and steady rods between the block and frame on both sides. Dipstick tube and stick are Bird. The Merc-o-matic is column shift, the Bird is floor shift, so the lever on the transmission has to be modified or exchanged for a Bird lever. If you only want a driver, you can probably get by with the passenger car engine with a Bird oil pan and converting to an alternator. You would also need the truck or Bird timing cover and front mount, as well as the steady rods. Only T-Bird purists would recognize the passenger car engine, but the "Mercury" lettered valve covers would be a give away if you don't change them. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 7 Years Ago
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Miker typed faster than I, but at least we didn't give conflicting information.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 7 Years Ago
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And Paul beat me with his answer too. I'm just getting too slow in my old age.
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By miker - 7 Years Ago
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I’m not sure, but I don’t think the bird front mount will clear the pass car damper. Been too long since I looked at them side by side.
The comment on the mercomatic case will need to be looked into, there’s not a lot of room in the 55 bird tunnel. In 56 it was modified to get the T-85 in behind the 312. I didn’t know that when I put a T-85 od in a 55 bird back in 1967. I guess it fit because I didn’t know. There’s your chance to upgrade to an AOD.
Some of the items I missed like the oil dip stick have been covered. You’ll have an accurate list when the rest chime in. But don’t get discouraged, it can be done a lot easier than other options, like an FE.
FWIW, if it’s got the “Mercury” script valve covers and they’re in good enough shape to chrome they are worth a pretty penny.
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Sandbarfarm31. My fellow Forum members have given you accurate info about what you'll need to tuck the '55 Merc engine into the 'Bird. I've always been amazed how many '55-'56 'Bird components were 'Bird - only.
The '55 Merc used a 6 volt starter and a 6 volt ignition coil. -These will be easily changed-out, too in putting the engine in your '56..
Going at what you're doing in a different way. Be aware of what is GooD about the particular year of engine assembly you have happened upon.
The '55 Merc likely has an ECK block (this is the casting number above the oil filter). Features this engine has that were fazed out in subsequent years of FoMoCo y-block production included:
- steel oil deflector trays under the rocker arm assemblies,
- a counter weight attached to the front of the camshaft, and
- a sheet metal oil drip trough mounted to the front of the engine block just above the crankshaft timing chain gear to aid in getting the oil spread over the timing gear and onto the timing chain. One pan head machine screw holds the oil drip trough to the engine block.
Just because FoMoCo only used these items for two years of production doesn't mean they didn't have purpose and merit in y-block engine reliability and satisfactory running longevity!
Besides changing the starter motor and the ignition coil, you may wish to change the oil filter mount located below the engine block casting number on the driver's side. Commencing in model year '57, FoMoCo introduced a spin on oil filter which makes changing the engine oil filter MUCH easier AND less messy for most of us. The spin-on unit requires three different mounting components (one of the three is a gasket) to permit affixing it to the engine block. Two of these items can come from another donor engine from '57 - '64.
Some of the particular components you require, may be obtainable from our Forum members. There are a number of 'Bird owners on here.
P.S. My experience is that a '55 or '56 Merc auto transmission will fit the '56 'Bird AND the trans. mount will line-up, too. The one I took out of a '56 'Bird was a '55 or early '56 unit based upon it having been air cooled like the '55 and early '56 'Bird FordoMatics.
Hope this helps! 
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Sandbarfarm31 (10/26/2018)
When Darrell said that you need a 'Bird 'base', I believe that he was referring to a '55 - '57 Thunderbird oil pan and the oil pump pick-up that goes with the 'Bird rear positioned sump. As was mentioned by others, there are various Ford truck y-block rear sump pans, but the 'Bird unit is needed to accomplish good clearance with various things.
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By darrell - 7 Years Ago
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if i remember right the ford and merc transmission mount is different.if your not discouraged by now you must be dam close.
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Hoosier Hurricane (10/26/2018)
And Paul beat me with his answer too. I'm just getting too slow in my old age.
John (Hoosier Hurricane). The folks that race against you would like to hear that you're getting slow. I hope they don't bet on it. It'd be costly for them!
Consider playing more computer games to limber up, John. I'm amazed to watch kids when they're texting . . . What they do! GooD GrieF! 
Glad to see you back on here!
Regards,
Charlie Brown
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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You guys are great and have quickly identified all the parts I need to make this happen. Originally I purchased a 302 and C4 automatic put in his car but just could not find the desire to do so , when this Merc 292 and automatic showed up I was much more inspired to try to make this happen . I believe the change of the water pump housing and finding a front motor mount is fairly simple but finding the rear sump oil pan and pick up might be a challenge and I may have to ask folks here if anyone has one that I could purchase. Yes it does have the Merc script valve covers and I would be willing to make a swap and trade with someone for the parts that I need. My goal is to have this as a driver not a show car so I’m assuming I will need at a minimum the following parts :
-water pump housing and pump extension
- Tbird rear sump oil pan and pickup
- 12v starter and coil
-mid stabilizers
- thermostat housing
- drivers side exhaust manifold (it has rear dump manifolds on Merc engine)
- gaskets and motor/trans mounts
If I have forgotten anything let me know. PLEASE, if anyone has the oil pan etc I would gladly cut a deal! Again THANKS MUCH GUYS, you have saved me a lot of headaches with your corporate knowledge!!! MUCH APPRECIATE!! Jim
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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The oil pan is a tough one. Again, it's a '55 - '57 'Bird-only application. Prices are often three to four hundred when you find them. There are two oneBay right now, but I would not buy either of them if I needed one! Be sure to get one that is 'solid'. Look at outside condition. I had one friend braze his up because of rust through! The metal thickness is significant, but look for pitting!
Click the links below for pan comparison info from Ted Eaton and two current eBay listings. Be sure to look carefully at ALL of the eBay sellers' pictures.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic74338.aspx#bm74375
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-57-Ford-Thunderbird-Y-Block-312-OIL-PAN-OIL-PUMP-TUBE-SCREEN-PAN-BOLTS/372473672796?hash=item56b929345c:g:Q7IAAOSw-HRb0QRb:rk:7:pf:0
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-1956-1957-s-Ford-Y-Block-THUNDERBIRD-oil-pan-292-312-motors/332851383981?hash=item4d7f7d0ead:g:MGcAAOSwVZ5bz6RW:rk:10:pf:0
I've got a friend that has been into 'Birds forever. I'll give him a call and see what he's got. I'll send you his contact info IF your email info is on file here. In addition to the oil pan, be sure to get an oil pump pick-up assembly (tube and screen) that is in GooD shape. Sometimes the tubes have been abused which can cause problems with leaks, suction (oil pick-up),OR flow problems.
Below is another comment from Ted Eaton. Click the link below
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost140342.aspx
Hope this helps!
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Jim. I've added to the list you came away with after reading all our 'stuff'.
Sandbarfarm31 (10/27/2018)
. . . My goal is to have this as a driver not a show car so I’m assuming I will need at a minimum the following parts - 'Bird or truck front timing chain cover (to accommodate use of front engine mount) - water pump to timing chain cover SPACER [IF you use the 'Bird only crankshaft vibration damper} - 'Bird only crankshaft vibration damper (unless you rig up something different to avoid it; get info about 'Bird dampers before buying a used one!) - 'Bird only rear sump oil pan and oil pump pickup assembly - 12v starter and coil - mid stabilizers (??? not sure what you're identifying here) - 'Bird only thermostat housing - 'Bird only driver's side exhaust manifold (different than what was used on any other FoMoCo vehicle application)- gaskets and motor/trans mounts (still not sure about your needing the transmission mount, but I may be mistaken) - 'Bird OR later passenger car or truck valley pan with rear opening for crankcase ventilation tube OR PVC set-upIf I have forgotten anything let me know. Jim
This is all doable, Jim!
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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Thanks Charlie Brown! I figure EBay prices are high and am going to be patient that a fellow Y-Block friend will have parts. I am kinda excited to think I MAY be driving my crusty little Bird in the not so distant future!! Again,! Thanks for the advice and help!! Jim
PS. I’ll take some pics of my engine/trans later today
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 7 Years Ago
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Charlie, regarding the left manifold, I once bought a junkyard '59 Merc 312, and when I took it apart I found an EDB exhaust manifold on the left side. I know it could have been changed over the years, but that manifold is now on my '57 Bird. Maybe Kultulz can look it up in his Merc parts manual and see if it has a B7S part number. Hopefully this would be another potential source for the manifold. The T-Bird vendors do have repro manifolds now.
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By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago
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"Maybe Kultulz can look it up in his Merc parts manual and see if it has a B7S part number"
Sorry. I no longer have an early MERC MPC. I keep meaning to buy one on CD but never seem to get around to it..
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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Someone on Facebook recently said that '59 312 came with a T-Bird manifold so it could be true.
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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John and Charlie. You're both right. I talked with a used parts vendor at a car show in September who told me that '58, '59, and '60 Mercs with the 312 engine have the same left hand exhaust manifold that the '56 and '57 'Birds use. The reproductions are going for over $200 in the catalogs I've got!
This is the same fellow that several years ago told me that '55 and '56 Mercs with automatic OR 3 speed or 3 speed w/ overdrive transmissions have the same driveshaft yoke. This is the best source for the early 16 spline T-85 transmission splines that I know that exists today!
Thanks for coming in on that info. My old brain had already forgotten. Ugh!
Regards,
Charlie
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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Hi Charlie
I did not receive your email!
Sandbarfarm@hotmail.com
Thanks, Jim
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By PF Arcand - 7 Years Ago
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And the other thing to consider while obtaining the needed conversion parts is, have you checked out the conditions of the Merc engine & transmission?..
And other thoughts.- In the event the engine needs a rebuild- John Mummert in CA now markets a 292 to 312 internal conversion kit.. Or there's an Ad in Y-Block magazine recently for two 312 blocks in S.W. Ohio. the # is 513-868-3311. Leave a message if no answer..
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By KULTULZ - 7 Years Ago
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I'm curious (bad description) . Change that to wondering....
Is you intent just to re-power with a Y-BLOCK or attempt a close and/or dedicated restoration?
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 7 Years Ago
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Jim:
If you are not looking for a Concours restoration, here's another possibility for an oil pan. Many years ago I wanted to put a Y Block in my channelled '33 Ford pickup street rod. A new T-Bird pan was not an option for me then, so I took a front sump pan, cut the flange off about an inch below the gasket surface, reversed the flange, and welded the pieces back together, adding a small patch in the front corner where the parts didn't exactly match. That gave me a shallow pan at the front to clear the truck crossmember. I don't remember what I did for the oil pickup tube, but I probably modified the original front sump tube. I had to re-drill a pickup tube hole in the reversed pan and weld up the original hole. I do now have a Bird pan, but it is pretty rusty. I ran that engine until I wore it out, then decided to put a flathead in the truck like the street rods of the '50s had. I doubt I'll ever put the Y back in the truck, I'd have to rebuild it anyway. The flathead still runs good, and the truck is presently undergoing a restoration.
Another possibility would be to take a truck pan and trim the front portion to clear the Bird crossmember and steering linkage and weld flat plate in for a new bottom. Either of these modifications would reduce the oil capacity a little.
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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John
I’d be interested in the rusty Tbird oil pan as I’m trying to keep it a budget build. Email me at: sandbarfarm@hotmail.com
Charlie has very graciously sent some possible parts provider as well. Thanks much, Jim
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Sandbarfarm31. Below is a composite list of original 'Bird engine parts to re-purpose the '55 Merc engine you've acquired for use in your '56 'Bird.
NOTE:
- 55 Merc passenger car engine is 6 volt starter, ignition coil, and generator
- some have suggested use of an alternator instead of a generator to eliminate need for the 'Bird components
- some have suggested use of a passenger car crankshaft damper to eliminate use of the 'Bird water pump spacer
Needed Parts:
- 'Bird or truck front timing chain cover (to accommodate use of a front engine mount)
- 'Bird water pump spacer for the timing chain cover
- 'Bird only crankshaft vibration damper (learn info about used 'Bird dampers before going shopping)
- 'Bird timing pointer (Needed for 'bird damper. Forgot to list this! Thanks, Sandbird)
- 'Bird engine dipstick and dipstick tube
- 'Bird only rear sump oil pan and oil pump pickup assembly
- 12v starter and ignition coil
- 'Bird 12v generator OR modify a 12V passenger car generator using 'Bird front pulley and an alternate wiring connection on rear plate
- 'Bird generator bracketry
- 'Bird only thermostat housing
- 'Bird driver's side exhaust manifold NOTE: indication that '59 & '60 Mercurys with the 312 have an exhaust manifold with different casting # that will fit 'Bird application! Casting number is an EDB prefix
- 'Bird motor mounts (side engine mounts and stabilizer rods plus front motor mounting system assembly and components)
- 'Bird OR later passenger car or truck valley pan with rear opening for crankcase ventilation tube OR use of PVC set-up
- 'Bird or later passenger car valley pan draft tube
- a set of standard y-block rocker arm covers to replace the '55 Merc embossed lettering ones
Eventually may want to obtain . . .
- late '57 up y-block spin-on oil filter adapter
- '57 or up passenger car ignition distributor to replace the '55 Loadomatic distributor
- 'Bird air cleaner
Hope this helps, Jim!
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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Wow Charlie this is exactly what I need! A concise list! I believe a nice fella is providing me a T bird oil pan ( will still need an oil pick up and a dip stick) and a front cover with motor mount. This is a great forum and I sure appreciate the help!!
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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Dipsticks are reproduced.
A pickup tube was available on eBay fairly recently but it was damaged / repaired / modified. Here is the link. It's not currently listed but you can contact the seller to see if it is available.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-1956-1957-Ford-Thunderbird-292-312-Y-Block-oil-sump-pick-up/332715188296?hash=item4d775ee048%3Ag%3AzQsAAOSwRWRbQ-PK&_pgn=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=y+block+oil&_from=R40&rt=nc
The pickup tube may be cheaper to make since it is a 'bird only part and will probably have the 'bird only price if you find a good one. You could do that by cutting up other pickup tubes and welding pieces together to fit.
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By Hoosier Hurricane - 7 Years Ago
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Jim:
I suggest you get a catalog from one or more T-Bird vendors. They have nice illustrations showing their parts and corresponding pieces. Also you can get an idea of available reproductions and prices.
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By Sandbird - 7 Years Ago
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If you use the T-Bird damper you will need to use a T-Bird timing pointer.
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By Sandbarfarm31 - 7 Years Ago
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I am just trying to get a running car. No pure restoration. I am wondering if finding a driveshaft is going to be another challenge?
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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Driveshafts can be made and are not that expensive, so no problem there.
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Sandbarfarm31. My understanding is that the '55 and '56 Mercs with automatic AND standard 3 speed or 3 speed w/ overdrive transmissions use the same driveshaft yoke. My experience is that having both of these '50s transmission types using the same driveshaft yoke is an unusual thing. The transmission yoke needed has 16 spline, was a Spicer application, and I'm told has been out of production for a l-o-n-g time.
Consider trying to obtain the original driveshaft for your transmission from the fellow you got the engine and transmission from. No, it is the wrong length and tube diameter for the '56 'Bird, but you need the transmission yoke.
The '56 'Bird has a Dana 44 rear end in it that is different from what was used in the '55 Merc as I recall.. I'd look for a '56 'Bird auto transmission driveshaft. I think the length will be correct for your '55 Merc automatic. Perhaps the Merc 16 spline yoke can be used with the 'Bird drivshaft. Overall length of the driveshaft assembly is information that I don't have.
John (Hoosier Hurricane) may know for sure.
The '56 'Bird 312 engine with the 3 speed w/overdrive transmission would be another source for the correct driveshaft yoke with the 16 spline Spicer yoke. The transmission in the '56 3 speed w/ overdrive transmission was a Borg Warner T-85 w/ an R-11 overdrive unit.
Hope this helps.
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By NoShortcuts - 7 Years Ago
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Jim. In the link below, MarkMontereyBay is offering a set of exhaust manifolds for sale.
- The passenger side exhaust manifold unit is the later style that connects a heat tube to the carburetor automatic choke rather than using a heat tube inside the intake manifold as Ford used in '57. This exhaust manifold will work on your '56 'Bird and is more efficient than the '55 Merc unit you have.
- The driver's side unit, I believe, is the EDB casting ID unit John (Hoosier Hurricane) identified in this link as coming off of a later model '59 312 Mercury that is identical in configuration to what was used on '56 and '57 'Birds.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost141293.aspx
I've included two pictures Mark posted of the driver's side exhaust manifold. I identify this as fitting the '55-'57 'Birds because the rear exhaust manifold bolt, the one closest to the firewall, is accessible before the manifold turns down. On the passenger car exhaust manifolds, the rear bolt is only accessible beyond where the manifold turns down.
Hope this helps!
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