1957 and up distributors

1957 and up distributors

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By GREENBIRD56 - 6 Years Ago

That advertisement ought to be down in the classifieds, right? The Ebay price listing is $550...... whew!!!

Can you still buy new bushings for the Autolite style of OEM distributor (say 1959 model)? Re-bushing and setting the endplay has salvaged a lot of distributors over the years.

By GREENBIRD56 - 6 Years Ago

The best running set-up (all-around) I have is a 1959 Autolite style body with the "kidney" shaped flyweights. I came to me with an elongated flyweight travel slot in the upper rotor shaft. It had been designed by Ford to be used with a very short initial advance (3º-5º) - and then lots of centrifugal to reach whatever their target maximum was at the time, for the engine assembly it was installed in. I didn't want that on my engine as 10º initial seemed to work well and I wanted the limit to be 36º. Soooo.... you reduce the travel slot (in my case it was too long) to net a total travel of 13º in the distributor - 26º at the crank (with little or no wear on the pins). This required brazing up the end of the slot and then making a smooth radiused slot at the modified end.

The one in this photo looks a little different - it has the point cam machined off and the upper end modified to accept the "armature" of a Duraspark II system trigger.

By GREENBIRD56 - 6 Years Ago

I can't tell you what's in there for springs now - too long since I had it apart. At one point I had two of the softer Ford springs in there - tried to get all of the advance in at about 2500 - but I know others have used lower rev's for full mechanical. Depends on the gas available and the cam (mine is a stocker). I'm also running mine with a vacuum pot limited to 7º - and feeding it manifold vacuum. Sitting at idle, advance is about 17º at the crank - and on my stock cam that nets 20 inches HG - best vacuum. it drops out to accelerate - then comes back in as the engine goes to "cruise" at higher road speeds. I prefer the manifold vacuum advance method and that's the way I set it up - other methods work as well.

By GREENBIRD56 - 6 Years Ago

The single helical drive gear will make the shaft rise and fall on the endplay of the shaft. Wear of the pinion and cam gear will add to this...... due to the helix angle, the shaft will rotate ever so slightly with the rise and fall. The whole system of parts participates and it will also effect the electronic triggers.

By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago

Oldcarmark is correct - the instruction with my pertronix II said do not use the resistor with the Pertronix coil

oldcarmark (4/23/2018)

DryLakesRacer (4/23/2018)

Florida Phil...when it dies again I'll bet it's the Chinese condenser. Replaced twice on my 56 before I installed a Pertronics ll. Never a problem in 5 yrs now. I bought their correct coil also and used my existing ballast resistor. Good luck.

If You are using the Coil that they recommend I believe You can bypass the Ballast Resistor so the Coil gets full 12 Volts. I have had this combination on mine for Years without the Ballast Resistor. Flamethrower Coil.

By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago

Has any one used a company name Philbin Rebuild Products in Oregon. They rebuild distributors.

By paul2748 - 6 Years Ago

Trucks?? In 1963 the only Y Blocks were the trucks.

Tedster (5/31/2018)

Went through my stash of parts and have two rebuildable cores, is there an application chart somewhere listing what these came out of exactly?

C3TF A 12127 2MB
C3TF K 12127 4FC

By monarch - 7 Years Ago

The distributor out of my 1957 Ford ( not loadamatics) has a shaft that is 6 inches long. ( from the part that touches the block to the end of the shaft. My replacement from Napa ( 48-2808) is only 5 3/4 inches long and the gear is off a 1/4 inch. Napa ordered me a second distributor and it to is 5 3/4 inches long. I have a friend who has some old cores and they are all 6 inches long including loadamatics. Question is are these Napa distributors compatible or are they all packaged wrong. I know these units are rebuilt from different years and parts but I would think the length and gear should be the same length. Thanks Bill

By monarch - 6 Years Ago

Got 4 distributors from Napa. They all had the wrong shafts. Not Napas fault all ordered with right part number. Have since found a core that needs rebuilding. Now to find a shop that does in house rebuilding locally. Has a few missing pieces but is the right distributor. Thanks Bill

By PF Arcand - 6 Years Ago

Mark: Yes, incorrect assembly, but if I have it right, it's apparently because they are mistakenly using SBF shafts or distributor parts due to a shortage of original cores.

By PF Arcand - 6 Years Ago

Mark: you mentioned the pre 1957 Load o Matic distributors. Does anyone know if the shafts interchange with later units? And would they fit the SBF housings? If so, that would be a way to get usable cores into rebuilders hands. There must be some Load o Matics around gathering dust.. Also Mark, you mentioned Autoline, are they still operating in Canada?

By Y block Billy - 7 Years Ago

I recently had a similar problem with a 57 Tbird I worked on, checking the distributor out the advance was chewing into the bottom of the housing and it was full of aluminum shavings, when investigated it was found that someone had installed a thick gasket under the distributor flange where it rest on the block. This caused the gear to not rest on the pad in the block down by the oil pump shaft. Rotational forces on the gear were pulling down on it creating the wear in the housing. Like John states is is important that the gear rest on the block then check up and down movement of shaft in distributor. Being a Tbird with tack drive there was no other option but to make it work! unobtainium!

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (5/22/2018)

You are correct Jim. It is 1/4 Inch shorter as shown in pictures-not 1/2". The Gear is higher on the Shaft than original. Even at 1/4" shorter its still not engaging the Oil Pump Shaft by much. As I mentioned the Ones that were made in USA before they shifted Production to Mexico were correct Length at 6" and the Gears were properly located.

I have not heard of One made in Mexico yet that has correct Dimensions. Cardone just seems to want to ignore the Problem. Buyer beware!

Here is the problem(s) as I see it.

CARDONE is using SBF distributor cores. The actual housing will fit the FYB, the distributor shaft is shorter than the FYB. While the drive gear can be re-positioned (verify this when removed from box) on the SBF shaft, the dist shaft will be too short to engage the driveshaft fully. Also, the end of the shaft is mildly tapered to allow fairly easy dist install, so then there is even more slop.

FORD made a running change in 60/61 regarding oil pumps and the later pump (C1AE 6600-B) requires a longer driveshaft.

Pre 1960/61 used shaft B9A 6A618-A (L= 8 1/16") while 61/ used shaft CIAE 6A618-A (L= 8 1/4"). Both are still available from vendors.

Either maybe go with this or find a good FYB core and have it professionally gone through. While CARDONE was once a quality re-builder, it seems they have no real concern now. They also seem to be doing only cosmetic rebuilds so you will have no idea of what curves you will end up with (or quality of IGN parts).

PREVIOUS THREAD- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic13087-2.aspx

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Ted (6/7/2008)

DANIEL TINDER (6/4/2008)

Ted,

I located and reread the excerpt on pump shafts from "Engine Builder's Handbook", by Tom Monroe. I had remembered incorrectly, as it was NOT cam gear wear that he was concerned with, but shaft breakage due to increased shock loading of the ends (which are still the same size, though the shaft itself is larger and less flexible).

Glad to hear your experience with heavier, after-market shafts has been positive. I will thus feel more secure in using the one I have for my grocery-getter rebuild. His theory does seem to make sense, but may only apply to Hi-Po race motors running very heavy oil and tight, high volume pumps?

The ¼” hexagon aftermarket oil drive shafts are indeed more prone to breakage at the ends but that’s to be expected with the design where it steps down at the ends whereas the stock ¼” shafts are known for their ability to twist like a pretzel before snapping. But the shafts never break because of a defective or weakened shaft but generally because of the oil pump locking up. As a rule, the aftermarket shafts are strong enough that snapping the roll pin in the distributor gear can take place before a shaft failure which is a good safety fuse versus a shaft that simply twists until it breaks and the engine keeps running.
The original thought process on the heavier shafts was to reduce the harmonics being transmitted to the distributor thereby reducing spark scatter at the higher rpms. This was very important with point distributors and although not as big a player with the more modern electronic distributors, is still worth considering in this regard.

I don't positively know if this will solve the problem(s) being experienced with the SBF replacement distributor from CARDONE but there is a longer shaft (OEM - NOS) available as well as performance aftermarket.

IMO, if someone while assembling an engine, can verify correct driveshaft length within correct dimensional specs with an OEM FYB DIST AND the CARDONE SBF (w/ correct driven gear position) replacement and post the findings, it will alleviate doubt.

If the shorter driveshaft either slips out or breaks while running, you know what can happen.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Hoosier Hurricane (5/23/2018)

Correct. There have been several descriptions of the bottom of the bowl having been eaten and leaving shavings.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Kahuna (5/26/2018)

Further on this issue:
Is the problem that cores aren't available, or, is it that no one else rebuilds these things?

The problem is CARDONE is using SBF cores for rebuilding. The true problem is that the actual distributor shaft is shorter for the SBF than the FYB and the distributor gear is usually not located correctly on the rebuilt distributor shaft.

That is the true problem. There must be a true shortage of original FYB cores. The lengthened driveshaft (with correct location of gear) I referred to in a previous post would be meant to correct only the CARDONE rebuilds. But CAREDONE does not seem to care. They were once a quality rebuild supplier but after discovering all of this will make a wide swath around them.

The only remedy (IMO) is to source and have a correct period FYB distributor professionally rebuilt or go with a quality aftermarket distributor ($$$) if not concerned with originality.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (5/28/2018)

I want an original looking One not One of the new Aftermarket Ones especially at the Price they are.

I have a Cardone 30-2808 in my other 56 and have for Years with no problem.

A bigger concern is what do You use down the Road if they are hard to find now???

Most likely the CARDONE you have is a correct FYB rebuild (pre-FYB core shortage).

Check the I.D. NOS. on the housing.

Like a previous poster stated, rebuilding one yourself is not all that difficult but sourcing quality replacement parts and setting curve(s) without a distributor machine, while not impossible, would require a lot of effort. I doubt CARDONE goes that far for you. They reach into their CHINESEIUM parts bins and slap it together.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (5/31/2018)

Went through my stash of parts and have two rebuildable cores, is there an application chart somewhere listing what these came out of exactly?

C3TF A 12127 2MB
C3TF K 12127 4FC

Yes, but the ID Chart will be found in the TRUCK MPC for that period. Both are truck applications.

2MB and 4FC are date codes.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"Well that's really the issue isn't it. Sometimes they don't use Ford part numbers or just make up their own. So it's left to the repairer to try and figure out what's what and what will actually work."

They can't use actual FORD P&A (or ROTUNDA - AUTOLITE - MOTORCRAFT) numbering because of copyright infringement unless NOS or FORD AUTHORIZED REPRO.

The FORD P&A SYSTEM is very orderly/precise whereas these sellers shotgun information and you have to scroll through page after page to find what you are looking for (if you ever do). Also showing an actual FORD PN would give you the idea the part is genuine when it is actually Chineseium.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"The bushing is solid steel and hard like tool steel and no way for the oil to get to the ID from the oil cup. We then split the dizzy in half length wise right through the oil passage. At the bottom of the oil passage there is a small chamber area for the oil that goes around the OD of the bushing, what good does that do?

Was there ever a time maybe in earlier years the that oiling through the cup actually oiled the bushing?"

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/2f437507-6e84-40db-ba3f-86b9.jpg

There should be a spiral on the shaft itself which should bring the oil to the bushing-
Some styles had the cup and other styles had a wick under the rotor button you were supposed to oil when servicing.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Bushings- B8QH 12102-A - C5AZ 12120-A - C5AZ 12132-A

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/04018f31-96eb-4765-a91e-d68f.jpg

The SHOP MANUAL shows how to remove and replace with SPECIAL SERVICE TOOLS but they can be duplicated.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Basic PN 12210 is the points actual cam. Do you need the cam or rotor (12200)?

If rotor, B7A 12200-A is the STD 1957/ .

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"...an earlier part number for the "upper" bushing (Y Block distributors have only one) is B7A-12120-A (replaced or superseded by B8HQ-12120-A)"

B8QH 12120-A

Where did you come across B7A 12120-A being replaced by B8QH 12120-A?

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"Can anyone shed some light on correct part numbers and availability? Is this another unicorn part??"

I hate to interfere, but you realize there are two distributor designs (1957-1959) and 1958/ )? There is a design change again in 1960 and again in 1965. While many parts are interchangeable, many are not.

You are working with a 1963 292 LT distributor? What is the ID NO.?

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"The question pertains to whether the distributor shafts available are serviceable for more years than Mac's or Carpenters allows.

I have a hard time trying to decipher sites such as those. If I need something, I search by the actual PN.

That being said, The B7A 12175-A shaft was used on the 292 through end of pass car production (1962). I cannot say for LT as I got rid of most of my reference materials years ago.

I will leave you alone now ... Wink

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (5/31/2018)

KULTULZ (5/31/2018)[

2MB and 4FC are date codes.

Hm, I thought C3 was the date code, and T of course means truck etc., the shop manual sez K suffix designates 292 V8 but is silent on the rest.

C3 would refer to the 1963 model year the part was released for assembly. The other characters if stamped is the actual assembly date of the dist assy..

If you see a Casting I.D. No. on the distributor housing with a Basic PN 12143, that refers to the actual bowl casting I.D. and any Cast Date Code would be the casting date of the bowl.

The MPC would show more concise/up to date and detailed info (service upgrades/superscessions) over a Shop Manual. The Shop Manual will give you detailed service info (curves for instance) (along with Service Letters/TSB's) whereas the MPC will not.

Hope that came out understandable...

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

Yes.

The 57/58 is unique as is 59/ (matches breaker plate style)

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"...they have the old, "fat comma" style advance weights in stock, though I can't find them on their site. B7A-12188-A The problem with these, is the slot pins, though made of hardened steel, get grooves worn into them.

The distributor cam itself though, the slots also show some wear. Probably be OK, but if anyone has access to the part # for these that would be great, I believe this was actually an Autolite distributor. 13L is stock I believe."

Go to the FTE site and post your question and DIST ID Nos and a fellow named NUMBER DUMMY should be able to give you the PN's and availability of the parts you want. I no longer have that period TRUCK MPC.

Any curving info you need will be in the appropriate year LT SHOP MANUAL.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

'Ya know...

A lot of the LOADOMATIC service parts are

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/6f720df9-eb99-4500-8d21-d2ca.jpg

still available NOS if you know what you are looking for. If you are still a young fellow, it might be worth stocking up while you can...

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"Hm. I see where you're goin' with that. Can the '57 and later cam assembly and weights be swapped over? Breaker plate?"

No, the LOM DIST BOWL is smaller as is the dist cap.

CARDONE used to be a class act. I personally will avoid them like the plague nowadays.

By KULTULZ - 6 Years Ago

"In contract terms it falls under warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, and they can't just slap a sticker on the box "too bad so sad". Technically they would have to sell their products "As-is". The customer has an expectation that when he buys a Y block distributor, it's going to fit and is designed and constructed in a workmanlike way."

CARDONE DISTRIBUTOR 32-2808 DISCLAIMER-

WARNING-
" It is extremely important to match the replacement distributor to the original unit. Dimensions and gear description must be checked before installation. If the original shear pin or gear is worn or broken, then the oil pump and or gear must be replaced. Using the wrong distributor, worn drive gear , or defective oil pump drive will result in extensive engine damage and VOID THE WARRANTY."

In short, have a nice day.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I sent an Email to the Tech Dept at Cardone asking about the Problem posted here. Asking if they were aware of the problem with Shaft Length and has it been corrected? Response was not having a problem and they are built to OE Specs. Maybe it was just One batch assembled wrong or have there been any recent problems with these? I have purchased 2 in the past and not had any problem with them except for one with excessive vertical free play which I corrected using Shims. Email- tech@cardone.com

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

$200.00 + Core seems to be around the Average Price.There's several listed on Ebay with some even higher than $200.00. Rock Auto sells them for a little less than $200.00 + Core but they are Carcone Units too. There is a shortage of Cores because they never get the 57+ Ones turned back in. A couple of Years ago there were no rebuilts available from Carcone for awhile because they ran out of Cores.I don't know of anyone else selling rebuilt Ones except Carcone. If You go on Ebay there are new Ones from Offshore with Electronic Ignition available. Anyone tried One of these? When I contacted Carcone by email a few Weeks ago they claimed they were not aware of any Problems with these 30-2808 Units. Shortage of correct Cores right now does not bode well for the Future needs. About a Year ago there was another Supplier on Rock Auto who claimed that they had brand new Distributors for Y Block. When I contacted them directly to verify that the Units were for Y-Block they realized they were not. The Listing is gone from Rock Auto. Only the Carcone Units are listed. The only real difference between the Y Block Distributors and most other Ford Distributors is the length of the Shaft. Gears are different but thats not a problem to get correct Gears. If You look at the ID # on the Housing of the 30-2808 Exchange Units they are from several different Years and Applications. The housings are the same for Years. The Shaft is different for Y Blocks. I have used 2 Carcone exchange Units without a problem with shaft length or Gear Location but both were purchased more than a Year ago. The problem with Shaft Length an Gear location seems to be within last 6 Months.Maybe Carcone is now having these redone Overseas like a lot of other Automotive Suppliers and that's where the Problems are coming from??? There are a lot of Offshore Condensors that are Garbage as We are finding out. By the way the correct Part # for the Carcone Y-Block Unit is 30-2808. I see some different #;s in prior Posts which I think are incorrect for our Y-Blocks.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

........The Shaft is different for Y Blocks. The correct Part # for these Cardone Distributors is 30-2808. I see a different # in previous Posts.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/3bb60006-1d0c-433d-9999-4333.jpg

I contacted Cardone about a Month ago regarding these 30-2808 Distributors being assembled wrong. They denied there was a problem. I bought One last Week and sure enough the Dimensions are wrong. I took Pictures comparing the originals to the Exchange Units showing where the Dimensions are wrong. I sent a detailed Email to Tech Dept at Cardone again Today. Now they are going to have whoever is responsible tor Quality Control look into it. Hope they agree and Fix the Problem. I have searched extensively and there is no other Source for these unless You go aftermarket high $ Units.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/af8ef354-3b39-4b8b-a502-d462.jpg

More Pictures

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

DryLakesRacer (4/23/2018)

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Whats the complete Part # ? I can check Parts Catalog and see what they fit.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/19/2018)

That must be an error in the shop manual, see those all the time. When revisions and corrections are made the dealers get a service bulletin, we don't..
Yes the bushing goes down to a lip, if my old camera will cooperate today I'll try to take a picture of the housing my friend and I cut in half.
Were did you find the new bushing?
MACs listing for many parts are screwy at best...
I'm only guessing but I would think the 60-64 would be the same, and I only say that because I have a 59 that is different. The plate that the springs attach to is three pieces riveted together, of course I can't guarantee that is 100% original. Also it doesn't use the 3 little nylon buttons for the breaker plate to slide on, it has brass screws..

You might also check out Green Auto Parts or Sales. They have a huge Inventory of Obsolete Parts. If it doesn't show on their inquiry site U might contact them direct and see what they have.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I thought I was done adding my 2 Cents worth to this Topic but I just did a search for the Cardone 30-2808 which was the original cause for this Topic. They don't appear to be available from anyone who usually sells them. Is it possible that Cardone is now admitting there is a Problem with the Frankenstein Distributors they tried to produce using the wrong Shafts? Everywhere I checked online they are "not available". About Time they stopped selling them if that is the Reason they are not available.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

. squote]Tedster (8/8/2018)

Hm. I see where you're goin' with that. Can the '57 and later cam assembly and weights be swapped over? Breaker plate?

I wrote one seller about their 30-2808 wares, explained the problem.

"Hi,

I would suggest orderingg this part and if the measurements are not correct then return it.

We do not do measurements, as we cannot gaurantee accuracy.

So hope that that suggestion helps"

They can't be trusted with a crayon, a tape measure is a bridge too far, I guess.

[/quote]
There is no point in contacting the Seller of these 30-2808. They all come from Cardone and that's where the Problem is.. I contacted Cardone several Times regarding the "problem" with these 30-2808 Distributors. They are ADAMANT that there is nothing wrong with them and basically get LOST and stop bothering us. Nice Eh? Stay way from their Junk unless U want to end up with Engine Damage. I also contacted Pertronox with the suggestion that they might want to look at producing stock Type Distributors for Y-Blocks. No response from them.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

.Doing some reading online I believe the Bushings have to be honed to fit the Shaft once they are installed..

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

They may fit fine before they are pressed in but likely will be a tighter fit once pressed in. I purchased a NOS original 60-64 Light Truck 292 Y-Block Distributor on Ebay on Wed .Autolite DA-647 in the Box. Not rebuilt but later brand new Ford replacement Distributor with the Triangular shape Body below the Bowl. Surprised nobody beat Me to it. I don't need it right now but the way things look as far as getting replacements I thought it a good Idea to grab One while One is available.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I can't get a Link.Even using the Listing # won't show on Ebay. If You search ford 292 Distributor and look at the "Solds" its there. 4th or 5th Listing.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

The Seller listed it as a Ford 292 Distributor. If He had mentioned Y Block anywhere in the Listing it would have been gone quicker than I found it. The casting # on the Bowl identifies it as being produced in 1965 or After. I found several other sold Ones on the Internet with the same 1965 Casting Identification. They are for up to 1964 Ford Truck with Y Block. NOS Ford Service Parts. Nice to find a NOS One. I have a 390 Holley sitting in a Box that needs a rebuild. So now I have a Distributor also for when i do another Conversion. Done 3 so far. Forgot to mention- I asked If He was open to an Offer and He took $10.00 off the listed Price."Frosting on the Cake!".

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

If U convert it to Pertronix You have remove it and enlarge the Hole for the Retainer that comes on the Pertronix feed Wire. I had to do that on the 1957 Distributor I just installed on my Car recently.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Its hard to find good Cores that can be redone. Personally I prefer the post 62 or so with the Vacuum Advance that can be adjusted using an Allen Key.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Rock Auto was selling the Cardone 30-2808 as recently as last Week.Now the Listing is rebuild and return your Core. I wonder if they have not had a bunch of returns when selling what Cardone is producing now???

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Thanks. It just pisses Me off because now I need One to use with the Holley 390 I already have and I can't find One. I want an original looking One not One of the new Aftermarket Ones especially at the Price they are. I have a Cardone 30-2808 in my other 56 and have for Years with no problem. A bigger concern is what do You use down the Road if they are hard to find now???

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I ended up buying One on Ebay. Original 1957 FEH which looks very good. Bushing has been replaced. Seller says it should be very useable as is. I am going to Covert it to Pertronix before I install it. Also ordered a brand new 390 Holley Carb. I converted my other 56 several Years ago and has been very reliable and certainly much more responsive than the original Loadomatic and Teapot.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (5/29/2018)

The only caveat there, the internal rubber diaphragm is vintage 1957 as well, and may be dried out by now and crispy. Won't last long in service, maybe.

Thanks. The Seller assures Me it is working now. They are available in the event it does stop working. I am just happy to have found what looks like a very good original Distributor so I can get on with my Conversion.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Kahuna (6/2/2018)

Is it possible to purchase just the vacuum advance units for an original 57 & up distributor?

Thanks
Jim

I just purchased an original 1957 Distributor. You might want to read my Post regarding this Type Vacuum Advance.. You can buy the Advance without the Spacers/Springs from amongst others Macs. If I read the Information from Steve "Greenbird56" correctly you can use the later Vacuum Advance if You also change the Breaker Plate to later Style.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

That's interesting because the Distributor Shafts are 1/2 " Shorter than the Original Units. So how much of the Oil Pump Shafts are actually being engaged by the Distributor Shaft? Not much by the sounds of it. I guess if You were to use a longer Oil Pump Shaft You could use these Distributors if You wanted to take a Chance that the Gear on the Distributor will work even though its not positioned correctly either. The Units they are selling do not match the Dimensions that Cardone itself says they should be.Not sure what the Alternative is because I won't be using One of these 30-2808. They seem to be selling a lot of them on Ebay. Cardone don't seem to care that the Units they are producing are not assembled correctly. Buyer beware as the saying goes!

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I don't know where the difference would be that allows it to still engage the shaft. The difference of 1/2 " shorter is from the Pad that sits on the Block to the end of Shaft. Look at the Pictures I posted a couple of Weeks ago showing the Measurement of the 30-2808 replacement and the Original I have. Doesn't make sense that it still engages Oil Pump Shaft.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

You are correct Jim. It is 1/4 Inch shorter as shown in pictures-not 1/2". The Gear is higher on the Shaft than original. Even at 1/4" shorter its still not engaging the Oil Pump Shaft by much. As I mentioned the Ones that were made in USA before they shifted Production to Mexico were correct Length at 6" and the Gears were properly located. I have not heard of One made in Mexico yet that has correct Dimensions. Cardone just seems to want to ignore the Problem. Buyer beware!

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

It would be helpful to know that Information. Perhaps Ted could do a little checking when assembling one of the Y Blocks He rebuilds. I found an Article Ted wrote several Years ago regarding using different Drive Shafts when He modified an Oil Pump into a High Volume Pump. A different length Shaft was required to make it compatible with the Distributor. If Cardone is not going to fix the Problem then maybe We can figure out how to make them work. The big Problem really is that the correct Cores are hard to come by because they don't get turned back in. So I guess this is Cardone's Solution to the Core Problem. These 30-2808 Distributors can be recurved using Mr. Gasket Spring Kit., the Vacuum Advance is Adjustable, Aftermarket Electronic Ignition or Fords EEC Ignitions can be installed. They can be a low $$ upgrade over the original Loadomatic if they can be made to fit correctly as far as Dimensions and Shaft Length.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Hi John. If You go back to Page 4, the Company making those Aftermarket Distributors are doing exactly that. Combining the lower Part of an original Y-Block Distributor with late new Production upper Distributors. They want to purchase any Cores just to get the lower Shafts.I wasn't sure if the lower end of Shaft rides on the Block. That being the Case the Shorter Shafts will not work even with a longer Oil Pump Shaft. So much for that Idea. Thanks for the Info.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

nt[quote]john2747 (5/24/2018)

Go back to page # 1.I am a retired machinist worked in a machine shop for 44 yrs.I have worked with some very talented welders,I doubt that any of them would claim they could weld two shafts together and maintain a .005" tolerance in length.If it has ever been done it was due to lots of talent.Both length and straightness would be a big challenge.The measurement is taken properly from bottom of distributor housing flange to the bottom of machined pad on the bottom of the gear,not to the bottom of the gear teeth.I have built tach drive distributors from scratch using some original parts.A SBF distributor shaft is about .958" too short to use in a y-block.Like they say there is no substitute for length.SBF distributors can not be reconfigured to ford spec's for y-blocks,it is simply impossible without making the shaft longer That picture from Cardone is simply ridiculous,the measurement to the top of the gear is meaningless,distributor gears differ in height from different producers only the bottom pad on the gear comes into play.

john2747

[/quote
You make some good Points John. The Company making the Aftermarket Distributors are using a machined Sleeves to join the Hybrid Shaft together. I can see that working if the machining is Accurate. I don't have much faith in the Examples Cardone is using when they claim their Inventory of 30-2808 is "fine". They just don't seem to care. Avoid their Distributors unless You want problems not too far down the Road.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Looks like. 30-2808 is Carcones #. Measure from under the Pad that sits on the Block when the Distributor is seated and the end of the Shaft. Needs to be 6". If its 5 3/4 its too short. Send it back. I noticed a Seal on that One where it sits in Block. Y Blocks don't use a Seal or Gasket there. Just Metal to Casting. I emailed Carcone Tech again Friday to ask if anything is being done to correct the Problem. See if I get a Response.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I don't think You have one of the Problem Units. Problem started about a Year ago. Cardone moved Production from US to Mexico about the same Time.I bought One about 14 Months ago which was US Production. It was fine .Is Your Shaft 6 inches from bottom of the Pad to the end of the Shaft? It will be very clear if its 1/4 Inch Shorter. The Instructions with new Rebuilt Units states very clearly to check New Unit against Original for Dimensions.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Maybe that's why it's on Ebay as a resale. If U look at the Box it say's "Made in Mexico". Cardone's not taking responsibility if it Screws up your Motor because its too short. U are supposed to check Dimensions before installing.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

.I just got an email from Carcone Tech Dept. "Our Stock is all good." Thanks for your Business. Now I don't know if they have corrected the Problem or are just going to ignore it and hope We go away and stop bothering them. Not sure to whom the next Complaint goes to at Carcone. Maybe they just need a new Tape Measure in the Quality Control Dept!

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Can Someone tell me how much ( Length in Inches) of the Oil Pump drive Shaft is actually inside the Distributor Shaft when assembled on the Engine. If you look at a used Shaft You can see the wear Mark on the Shaft. I am still discussing the Distributor Problem with Cardone Tech.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/4cd63cf3-844d-4d1f-8e13-e116.jpg

They sent Me a Picture showing the Dimensions that their 30-2808 is supposed to be. Its the same as original with the exception of the 1/4 inch short on the Bottom. Problem is the Dimensions in their Sample Picture do NOT match the Distributor I received and then returned. I would really like to get them to take this seriously and fix the Problem. They are really the only Source for Stock Type replacement Y Block Distributors. If We can't use One of theirs what are We supposed to use unless You want to spend a lot more Money for the new Aftermarket One's? I have requested that they send Me picture with 2 other Dimensions. Pad to bottom of the Gear and Pad to end of Shaft.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I will be very surprised if any are correct. All are being assembled in Mexico now instead of USA where they used to be assembled (correctly). I wonder if they are somehow adding a small 1/4 inch Spacer or Bushing ( by Mistake) onto the Shaft before it is inserted into Housing causing the Shaft to sit 1/4 higher inside the Housing. The Measurements are 1/4 inch off below the Housing as a result. I told the Tech Guy at Cardone that they should stop selling these until they fix the Problem. These could destroy an Engine if they run long enough. Some People don't read the Insert in the Box. i sent mine back to the Internet Seller in Canada for a Refund.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I just came back from working on my Friends 56. We had to pull the Distributor Carcone 30-2808 that I purchased for Him over a Year ago. Kinda held my Breath while We checked Dimensions. This is One built in USA before they shipped all Production to Mexico. This Distributor is correct as far as Dimensions. I still maintain the problems with these started when they changed to Mexico.They are not being assembled properly.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

That's a concern because some People don't read the warning and if its not correct why is Cardone selling them? I asked the Tech at Cardone the same Question. As far as I am concerned they should just stop selling them until they figure out the Problem. They are all wrong from what I am reading Online. The bigger Question is where do You get a replacement that is Correct because no One else seems to be supplying them? Contact Cardone at 888-280-8324 or Email tech@cardone.com. Maybe if enough People complain they might act on the Complaint.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

tbirddragracer (4/30/2018)

Oldcarmark, you are correct all 5 distributors from O'Reilly's were wrong. Wrong shaft length and wrong gear placement.
O'Reilly's sent all of them back to Cardone marked incorrect. Cardone has a disclaimer pasted over the box flaps stating:
WARNING
" It is extremely important to match the replacement distributor to the original unit. Dimensions and gear description must be checked before installation. If the original shear pin or gear is worn or broken then the oil pump and or gear must be replaced. Using the wrong distributor,
worn drive gear , or defective oil pump drive will result in extensive engine damage and VOID THE WARRANTY."
In other words it is your responsibility, not Cardone's to make sure the distributor is correct. I found the distributor I need on E-Bay.
Ernie Phillips

Where did U find a good One on Ebay because most of the rebuilt Ones I found are from Cardone. There are a couple listed as Autoline D404 which are Y block 1959 Application and should work also. They come with a new Cap and Rotor. I contacted Autoline also and they have no more available due to no Cores. Running out of Suppliers who still supply these Distributors.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

Very impressive. I just wonder if at some Point You will run into the same problem the other Suppliers have run into-no Cores. The different lower Shaft is what makes the Y block unique. Is there no other lower Shaft that can be used to build these because You are actually constructing a Shaft out of 2. anyway? There must be a lot of the original 55-56 Loadomatics out there that could be used thinking about it now.

By oldcarmark - 6 Years Ago

I don't think Business Adverts are allowed on the Site. These Distributors are an interesting Option I guess. I have only seen the "Offshore" Aftermarket ones on Ebay. Pretty Pricey especially if all You want is a basic Distributor to Swap for the Loadomatic.

By Kahuna - 6 Years Ago

Charlie
That is a GREAT idea. Something that Pertronix might just go for as there isn't too much R & D needed.
Excellent thought
Jim

By Kahuna - 6 Years Ago

Further on this issue:
Is the problem that cores aren't available, or, is it that no one else rebuilds these things?
I have a very good friend that does distributors for me & others on a part-time basis.
He did my 57 Dist on his machine that we then installed the Pertronix module.
If all that's needed is new bushings, etc., along with new parts he could do it readily.,
including the testing of Vacuum/Mechanical advance.
If, however, the task is more involved and new parts (shafts, etc.) are needed,that might
throw a wrench into the works. Otherwise, he's the man. Not sure he'd want too much more work,
but be assured his work is impeccable.
He's in Norcal.

By Kahuna - 6 Years Ago

Is it possible to purchase just the vacuum advance units for an original 57 & up distributor?

Thanks
Jim

By tbirddragracer - 6 Years Ago

I recently bought a Cardone # 30-2808 rebuilt distributor from my local O'Reilly's. The posts on this subject caused me to check the shaft length and gear placement. Guess what, they were the wrong dimensions. This Cardone box had a disclaimer pasted over the box flaps, that stated to
check the dimensions and gear placement for your application. It seems the posts on this site has caught Cardone's attention. My O'Reilly's
salesman ordered the remaining four distributors from their warehouse. I will post if at least one of these distributors is correct.
Ernie Phillips

By tbirddragracer - 6 Years Ago

Oldcarmark,
I bought a '58 Ford original distributor from one of the E-Bay Y-Block parts sellers.
Advertised to be in good used condition. Hope it is as advertised. Will post condition
upon arrival.
Ernie Phillips

By yblock57 - 6 Years Ago

I just bought a cardone (part #30-2808) from O'Reilly's to upgrade the load-a-matic that's in my '56 truck. Upon closer inspection, it looks like I have the same issues y'all have pointed out; incorrect shaft length and gear in wrong spot.

What are y'all using for distributors now? Should I order from one of the vendors like Mac's? I'd prefer to get one through a local auto supply that would allow me to swap in the future if there's ever a problem.

Thanks in advance!

By yblock57 - 6 Years Ago

Thanks for the info. I traded in a 57 core that was locked up, but am now regretting it. Parts guy at O’Reilly’s did his best to cross numbers up and even tried to get my old core back. Someone will eventually get the right distributor (if they rebuild my core). Sucks that parts vendors are so ignorant and unprofessional to not actually do the job right. Obviously no R&D.

By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago

Greetings to all: I think the word burnish is nothing more than a $.50 word for polishing. When ever I have replaced a distributor bushing, it was always used with the original, but good, distributor shaft. Therefore "burnishing" was never necessary. I still have a couple new bushings and found a new Y-block truck distributor shaft - one with the governor feature. The diameter is same as a car distributor. Slipping the new bushing over the new shaft revealed a perfect fit with no detectable slop/wobble but slid over the shaft perfectly. The part number is B8Q-12120-A and for what it's worth, Rear Counter Parts shows 143 in stock with a "common" rating. Dennis Carpenter, McDonald Obsolete Parts and Mustang, Etc. are also listed as having these bushings. I didn't contact them to verify this. Just Googled the Ford part number. FWIW, the bushing in the truck distributor with governor feature is of the oil-lite type. The NOS Ford bushings are steel, or some alloy of iron? If someone needs dimensions of a new bushing, let me know and I'll do my best to measure one. Hope this helps, JEFF.....................

By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago

Excellent find. A strib from a Lincoln Y 368 will work. Even the shaft is the correct length but you will need to precisely locate and pin a new Ford Y block gear on it. I needed a tack drive distributor for my truck and a 57 bird strib was out of the ball park on price. The 57 Mercury Turn Pike Cruiser with 368 was equipped with a tach.. This is one distributor that went under the radar but I had to remove the 15 tooth gear, (the Lincoln Y had a larger cam journal) and replace it with a 14 tooth gear for my 312 which has worked very well for several years now. Hope this helps, JEFF.............

By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago

Greetings to all: I think you all are on the right track. My way of doing something isn't always the best way for someone else. But yes, the collar stops the shaft fly weights from being pushed up against the bottom of the breaker plate, As 57RancheroJim stated, .024" sounds in the ball park. So, in this case, with the distributor fully seated in the block. there should be something LESS than the .024" thrust as when uninstalled. This ensures the bottom of the driven gear is indeed seated against the machined thrust surface in the block, the fly weight mechanism will not be contacting the bottom of the distributor bowl and the remaining thrust will ensure nothing will bind when up to temperature. Make sure your dial in on the distributor shaft tip and not the breaker point cam as the cam in the 57 & up distributors has some thrust also and will produce a false reading. With all things working properly, I too have never seen the stop collar contact the bottom of the distributor housing. Fellas, I'm not too good at explaining things but hope this may clear up the theory of this thrust business. JEFF.................

By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago

Greetings to all: I installed a cam from a 64 distributor into my 57 tach drive distributor for reasons 57Ranchero stated.. It fit and works as advertised. I'm also running Pertronix 2. Hope this helps, JEFF.................

By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago

Greetings folks: It's been a few years since I last assembled a Y-bolck distributor but the dimension from the bottom of the gear to the bottom of the mounting flange is measured with the shaft all the way down, seated against the bushing. The '64 shop manual refers to a "special tool" and to set the new gear requires all end play taken out. Here is how the book describes that procedure: With the backing screw on the support tool tightened enough to remove all end play, press the gear on the shaft to the specified distance from the bottom face of the gear to the bottom face of the distributor mounting flange. Then pin the gear. FWIW, I made a note in the book that the bushing was originally set .009 above the bottom of the bowl. Hope this helps, JEFF.......................

By FORD DEARBORN - 6 Years Ago

Sounds to me like you have it all down very well. Tightening the screw on the "special tool" would push the shaft down against the bushing/bowl. You are also correct in that there is a typo in the '64 book. It should be as you state, .022, not .002. This procedure establishes the correct positioning of the collar only. Then, feeler gauge removed and the shaft pushed against the screw, the shaft now moved upward .022, the collar is to be placed against the bottom of the housing and pined there which will therefore establish the .022 end play. There were different cam slots. The one that was in my '57 tach strib was 14 or 15* and I replaced it with the cam from my stock '64 strib which was something less, like around 12 or 13* I'm not at home and this is from my old memory. With out a distributor machine, a degree wheel placed on the cam would probably be the only way to check movement. As to the shaft and bushing fit, your mention of .0012 - should work. I personally have never had to "burnish" a bushing as I always was able to reuse the old, but good shaft. In your case, some tweaking of the bushing will be necessary. During the course of this thread, I did indeed check the fit of a new shaft and a NOS bushing which fit properly. That is, moved freely with no detectable slop. If I was home, I would measure these parts. Hopes this helps, JEFF............

By DryLakesRacer - 6 Years Ago

By john2747 - 7 Years Ago

   Gear placement: 302 ford dimension from bottom of distributor housing mounting flange to bottom of gear for all 289/302 distributors:    4.031"-4.038"

    Gear placement:y-block,from bottom of distributor housing mounting flange to bottom of gear for all y-block distributors:
                    4.991"-4.996"
    This measurement can only be taken accurately with the distributor shaft pushed to the bottom and some type of straight edge clamped to the bottom of the distributor gear.Use a high quality digital caliper.
    A 302 distributor housing fits the y-block without problems,but the shaft is .958" too short. If an attempt is made, the gear will not fit tight.A Y-block shaft can be used to replace the 302 shaft if it is in good shape.The gear must run on the pad in the block with .008"to .012" end play or it will not live very long.
    Cardone has likely run out of y-block distributors cores and are trying to make y-block distributors out of 302 cores,that can't be done without using .958" longer shafts,they are just making junk,and they could kill your engine.'

     john2747

By john2747 - 7 Years Ago

Gene
I have read about bad Cardone rebuilds in the past,it seems they only do "cosmetic" rebuilds.Y-Block specs for distributors are in the 1957 ford shop manual.With the distributor removed from the engine they give a measurement of .022"to .030" total main shaft end play,this can be measured with a feeler gauge at the gap between the bottom of the housing and the small collar that is pinned to the shaft.Your measurements indicate that your distributor has .032" shaft end play,that
should be close enough.Using your measurements for the shoulder to bottom of the gear it appears that the gear was pressed on the shaft about .076" to far,or the gear is from another distributor,or the original pin hole was drilled crooked and
the gear was turned 180* when it was reassembled.Taking that measurement is a bit tricky,the ford mechanics used gauge
to position the gear.Double checking the distributor in an empty block,with a feeler gauge is allot easier.With the distributor installed in the block and clamped down and the main shaft pulled up a gauge of .008"to .012" should be ok
between the gear and the machined pad in the block.With the main shaft pushed down the gear must make contact with
the pad.If it dose not contact the pad then it is not located properly.There is a weight plate pinned to the shaft near the top when the shaft is pushed down it contacts the top of the shaft bushing,but it is not meant to run like that,and will wear away the top of the bushing,not good.Perhaps finding a good used distributor that has never been rebuilt is a better way to go.I think the 59 to 64 distributors are better than the earlier ones.I hope things work out.

john2747

By john2747 - 6 Years Ago

By Dobie - 6 Years Ago

You might give these guys a call: Performance Automotive, 239 671 3974 or email them, perfignition@nctc.com. They rebuild and modify distributors. They're located in southwest FL.

By Dobie - 6 Years Ago

They likely will stop making them,. I can't see them making new shafts where they were reusing the original shafts before. It probably wouldn't be cost effective. I think we Y-blockers may sowed the seeds of this situation by sending in Loadamatic units as cores when we bought the rebuilt '57+ units. Sooner or later they were going to run out of the later cores to rebuild. I don't know if the Loadamatic units use the same shaft as the later ones but maybe they could use those.

By 57RancheroJim - 7 Years Ago

I just checked two OEM distributors and the shaft is 6". I had a friend return two Cardones, one had the hole for the gear pin redrilled and the gear moved 1/4", I forget now what the other reason was.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/6dbdf9e5-b4f3-4973-bc5e-1fd7.jpg

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Looking back at your pictures from a few weeks ago the difference looks like a 1/4". I don't have a loose FE oil pump shaft to measure, just a thought.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Thank you, thats good info to know, I had no idea they had a longer shaft after 60-61..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

A little off topic from the original post but I found something really strange when I was making one good dizzy from two old ones. These were both 1960 COAF models and after disassembly and cleaning I put some oil in the oil cup to see if it was going to the top bushing but it wasn't happening on either unit, WTF?? Talking to a friend about it we decided to dig deeper, to get the bushing out of the bad one we cut the dizzy in half to push it out. The bushing is solid steel and hard like tool steel and no way for the oil to get to the ID from the oil cup. We then split the dizzy in half length wise right through the oil passage. At the bottom of the oil passage there is a small chamber area for the oil that goes around the OD of the bushing, what good does that do?
Was there ever a time maybe in earlier years the that oiling through the cup actually oiled the bushing?

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Hoosier Hurricane (8/8/2018)

The wick under the rotor was to oil the cam/advance plate assembly, not the top bushing. The distributors that I have worked on had oilite bushings which could absorb oil from the cup, though few people ever put oil in the cup.

Correct, the oil wick under the rotor is only for the advance. I was also expecting to see an oilite type bushing, maybe those were used in earlier models. This one is hardened steel, I touched it to a grinder and the sparks were the same as tool steel. I know this is a 100% original '60 dizzy..
I guess the oil goes up the spiral in the shaft some how but thats baffling to me..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/8/2018)

That's different. Maybe it was a Monday morning distributor at the factory? I figured it was one of those oilite bushings. Oil cup seems to work on this one I'm rebuilding. Checked end play. OK. Spec is .022" to .032", the lower the better.

Both of the dizzy's have the same bushing so I don't think it was a fluke.
Just a wild guess but I wonder if too many bushings wore out from people not oiling them and they changed the design?
I wonder if Cardone even replaces the bushing and what do they use?

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/21/2018)

57RancheroJim (8/21/2018)

This just gets more confusing. I pulled out an old one and it's very hard to get a really accurate measurement with the tools I have but the best I could do was 4.940 with the shaft pushed up and 4.965 pulled down. So those numbers aren't even close to what they call for in the manual,???? Don't know what to say at this point..

OK, thanks very much for that info. So it's roughly (at least) 0.026" too high? Same amount roughly as the endplay. Did they install it wrong?? I better go lay down for a while. LOL

I have a digital vernier caliper on the way. Highest quality - $6.99 delivered to my door.

Maybe a machinist can explain this to me (hafta talk to me like I'm 5) but the plan is on installing the gear within the 4.991" to 4.996" range with the shaft pulled out.

What does the gear wear pattern look like on that one?

On the cardone it was clearly engaging only about the bottom 1/3! The shaft itself looks to be the right length oddly enough. The rotor end of the shaft is a bit longer though. Makes ya wonder who signed off on that operation.

Sorry for the late reply but my mouse went dead and I had to wait until this morning to go get batteries LOL.
To add to the confusion is the measurement taken to the bottom of the gear where the teeth are or to the bottom of the stepped area that meets the block surface?? That adds about another .030..
The distributor I'm measuring is a completely original 59 model. The wear pattern is as close to center as I can tell.
Is the new bushing steel or bronze?
A 57 shaft would have 26 degrees of advance.
Are you rebuilding the Cardone or another one?

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

OK, I was only able to measure the gear surface, if I add the machined surface then it comes into spec. and that was with the shaft pushed up with the collar against the body. It must be correct as that engine ran for countless miles since 59 and everything is still tight.. I just saved it for a back up or some future use..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/22/2018)

57RancheroJim (8/22/2018)

...if I add the machined surface then it comes into spec. and that was with the shaft pushed up with the collar against the body.

Huh. Well there you have it. Thanks Jim! I owe ya beer.

Ted, forget what I said, I confused myself again. The measurement from flange to gear was 4.965 + .030 to the machined surface on the bottom of the gear = 4.995 with the shaft PULLED DOWN.. Sorry

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

I hope it is a sign of them taking responsibility, it would help their credibility as a supplier. If they just stop making due to a lack of proper shafts it could hurt people in the future needing them

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Ted, is that for the steel bushing or the older oilite with the hole?

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

I like the idea of the oilite type bushing and if I ever did it again I would use it. I doubt I'll ever wear out the steel bushing in my lifetime LOL. Does the oilite bushing actually absorb oil? If it does as a I guess there is a large chamber in the casting that would allow a good amount of oil to be in there..
I'm just as confused if you measure with the shaft pushed up or pulled down. I reused the gear and collar so they just went back in the original location and it measured .024 end play when I was done and I called it good.. I'm thinking the max of .032 it about the limit or the rotor may start hitting the cap?

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Regardless of what type bushing, the Pertronix will put no side force on the shaft like points do. I've been using the Pertronix II for about four years now..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

No LOL, I only used the shaft, gear, collar from the one I sacrificed. I put it in my housing and it had a tight bushing so I didn't replace it. My shaft had a issue with the advance. While doing this I was curious why I didn't see any hole in the bushing or a way for the oil to get to the shaft so I cut up that one I wasn't going to use, I have a few others..
I measured the clearance between the collar and housing with the shaft pulled down. Also after I cut down the rotor I checked this morning and there is no sign of hitting the top inside of the cap as before. I've only put 160 miles on it since I reinstalled it. Hasn't missed a beat yet..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

I understand what you are saying and I don't have an answer, I'm not sure if it's measured with the shaft up or down. Do you have an old one to measure? I used the same gear and collar on the shaft so I didn't have to locate it or drill holes..
I broke out the shop manual and the way I read it is the measurement is taken from the body to gear with the shaft pushed up...

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

FORD DEARBORN (8/15/2018)

Thank you for confirming that.
Ted, I would grab that 59 piece, I own three Ford V8's, Y, FE, 302 and in all my travels to different sites and suppliers I have never seen that part for sale..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/15/2018)

57RancheroJim (8/15/2018)

FORD DEARBORN (8/15/2018)

Thank you for confirming that.
Ted, I would grab that 59 piece, I own three Ford V8's, Y, FE, 302 and in all my travels to different sites and suppliers I have never seen that part for sale..

Yeah, first question right outta the box, they asked me what year T-Bird I had. (I have an F100) for a second I wondered if maybe, they might not sell it to me. Better tell 'em I have a '57!

They should have 4 left. http://www.tbirdhq.com type in 12210 and it should pop. $50 bucks, they have some other Y related stuff too.

If anybody needs the flyweights, DC supposedly has 250 on hand. Nobody else does, except for a single lonely weight on the 'bay.

Good find, never thought to look at the Bird sites. It looks like the right one. Good luck and let us know when you receive it..
They list it as 57-59, Whats funny is I don't think Tbirds had Y blocks after 57, they all had FE or 430 Lincoln engines and it maybe the same part used in an FE???

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

A lot of the time REAR COUNTER tells me some one has XXXX but when you contract them they tell me they don't..
Good luck I hope you get the bushing.
This is the one I salvaged the shaft from and then cut it up trying to figure out how that oil hole lubes a solid steel bushing, it doesn't. I'm guessing they just cast thousands of them before they changed the bushing design.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/14f8201d-e91b-4b08-94ce-f325.jpg

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

That may not be sludge, there is a wick in there. I like that bushing with the hole. My bushing seems like hardened steel ?
So many variations over the years..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (8/19/2018)

57RancheroJim (8/19/2018)

You might also check out Green Auto Parts or Sales. They have a huge Inventory of Obsolete Parts. If it doesn't show on their inquiry site U might contact them direct and see what they have.

good reminder, I had forgotten about Green.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

I agree, .006 sounds like too much. I do like their method of bushing removal.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

I finished up the distributor on Monday and started to install it yesterday using my old cap and rotor and noticed there was some wear marks on the top side of the rotor brass tip, also signs of it hitting the top of the inside of the cap, another WTF!
After measuring the height of the rotor with and without the Pertronix wheel over the point cam there was a .070 difference. I checked that measurement again with two different rotors, FOMOCO and a STANDARD, both measured the same. I ended up sanding the bottom of the rotor to bring it back to the same height as without the Pertronix wheel.
I finally got it fired up, set the timing and went for a ride and all is good...

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/15/2018)

That's weird. There sure is a lot going on inside these things that need to be looked at!

Cheap distributor caps might be out of round in terms of the terminal ring, or made with old worn tooling and the dimensions aren't correct. I doubt that's your problem though.

I bought a Standard FD125 cap a while back and was rewarded with sparkles of brass glitter sprayed all over the inside. Same deal, rotor tip getting a little too chummy with the terminals. I think it turned out just that the rotor wasn't fully seated. The cap itself, if it is installed cockeyed will interfere with the coil secondary voltages because the rotor gap varies across different cylinders.

The cap is a NOS Standard with the brass terminals, wear was even so I doubt it's out of round. Just for fun measure the rotor height with and without the Pertronix ring on it.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/15/2018)

57RancheroJim (8/15/2018)The cap is a NOS Standard with the brass terminals, wear was even so I doubt it's out of round. Just for fun measure the rotor height with and without the Pertronix ring on it.

I did notice the clearance is real close on that, but the rotor and ring don't touch on the Ignitor I have installed. That is something to check. A little excess end play and that would do it too.. Hm. How much did you take off .020" or so? Good tip!

I just sanded the bottom of the rotor a little at a time until it measured the same height as it would have been without the Pertronix wheel so that would have been close to .070. I had checked it with both my old Pertronix I wheel and the Pertronix II and they were the same, even same part # cast on the part.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/15/2018)

KULTULZ (8/15/2018)

Basic PN 12210 is the points actual cam.

Yes. This is a unicorn component these days I guess. What happens is the advance slots get banged up and worn excessively, and the centrifugal flyweight pins that ride in them also get grooved. Then the mechanical advance gets stuck, or erratic. The '57 and later "should" work judging by some online pics but I don't want to order the wrong part. Thanks for your help.

I bet they used the same one for years, I wouldn't be surprised if the SB 289/302 motors use it also..
The 57 were 26 degrees of advance and the later ones are 24, thats why I don't use the 57.. That was for the cars, don't know about the trucks, I have a 57 truck manual I can check if needed.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Ted,
It's just my personal choice, I like more initial timing, I use 12 + the 24 mechanical for a total of 36.
B9AF-12210-A That appears to be a 59 part number and would only have 24 degrees. Don't be surprised if later ones have a different number and still could be the same part, Ford was notorious for changing numbers..
I have never got this technical on a dist in the past, I miss the good old days when you just put in a new set of points, condenser, cap and rotor and drove it...

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Ted,
Both '60 models I have use the spiral cut shaft. The point spring pressure is adjustable if you have a scale to measure it. No parts book so I don't know what the part # is for the bushing. Good luck getting it out, it must take a special type tool, that why I cut mine in half at the bottom of the bushing so I could press it out..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/9/2018)

[quote]57RancheroJim (8/9/2018)

.

Yes, but the Ford spec 17 to 22 ounces point spring pressure, that's a pound of force rapping on the side of the shaft, and most all of the cores available today are going to be loosey goosey. Any appreciable wear in the bushings will affect smoothness of tune. I'm certain this is a big reason the solid state modules are so popular, the distributors in collector cars are all wallered out. The electronic modules are not affected by this as badly.

The other '64 truck core I have, unfortunately on closer inspection is bent at the gear end. Can see it wobble noticeably. How does a distributor shaft get bent like that? Bad stuff I'm sure, but. Explains why I could never set the dwell consistently years ago.

Yes thats true. Luckily the housing I'm using has a pretty good bushing but I'll still be using the Pertronix.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Tedster (8/9/2018)

Yes, the shop manual calls it "burnishing" to the proper size (whatever that is, they don't say, it's a secret I guess) suppose it just means held to a very close tolerance of the shaft diameter. Figured on getting the bushing on hand and then send it off to have a machine shop do it.

Good luck finding bushings, if you find a supplier let us know. They were available from Ford but they haven't had them for years now..

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Ted,
Thats a good question. I've only worked on about a dozen over all the years and none have shown any wear on the bottom of the housing or had signs of excessive end play wear. The end play has always been between .020 and .025 and that's close enough for me.. The one I just assembled measured .024.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Jeff,
I understand what you are saying and I agree.

By 57RancheroJim - 6 Years Ago

Ted,
I may be wrong but if the shafts moves up and down a few thousands it wouldn't change the dwell, the point gap would remain the same but it would change the timing a small amount. Dwell would only change from side to side movement like with a worn shaft or bushing??

By 30 coupe - 7 Years Ago

I bought a cardone rebuilt dist. a couple of years ago. The first time I told them I wanted a dist for a '64 ford truck with a 292. They went with the listing for the eng. size in Liters, and I ended up with a 289 dist. we finally ordered one for a '62 truck with a 292. got a dist that looked correct, but by the ford # on the dist, it was a 302, modified for a y-block. It had a shaft that was to short just as you guys describe, but unfortunately I had already converted it to a ford dura-spark internally , and could not return it. I did not use the dist. as I was concerned about not having enough of the oil pump drive shaft engaging in the dist. I was afraid of a pump shaft failure or some thing related going wrong and destroying a new eng. ended up buying a MSD electronic dist. still not sure I will use it. may have firewall clearance problems when I put the eng. in my '30 coupe. anyway , I think the cardone dist. are not very good.

By willys392 - 6 Years Ago

I have a Cardone 2808 distributor. The gear measures 5" from the mounting base surface to the bottom of the gear but the hex shaft measures only 5 13/16". Am I to believe that this distributor is of no use in a Y block?
Bill

By Gene Purser - 7 Years Ago

"Monarch, thank you for bringing this issue up.
John2747, thank you for providing these specs. I've been running a Cardone distributor in my '55 272" for about three months. I'm going to pull it out and measure it tomorrow.

EDIT: I couldn't wait until tomorrow to measure it. I went out to the shop and pulled the distributor. This one measures 4.922 with the shaft pulled down and 4.890 with the shaft pushed up against the stop at the housing. The overall length of the shaft from the shoulder that seats on the block surface to the end is 6", measured with a ruler. So mine is .070-.100" short from the mating surface to the bottom of the gear. How big of a problem is this?

I have the Loadomatic that came out of the engine. It measures 4.914 to the bottom of the gear, .008" less than the rebuilt unit.

By Gene Purser - 7 Years Ago

I've been out of

john2747 (11/17/2017)

Paul, thank you for your thorough reply. Until just recently I've been away from Y blocks for 20+ years, first into street rods and then into flatheads. I dug around in my stash of Y block parts and found a 1959 core distributor and it measures less than 4.900 also. Maybe my measuring method or tool is faulty. I get the same measurements with a digital and a dial caliper, admittedly not machinist quality. I have a bare 292 block stuck away in a corner and will dig it out and see if I can check the distributor there.

Thank you so much again for your informative post.

By Florida_Phil - 6 Years Ago

I replaced my 1955 Load-a-matic with a 57 Ford distributor I ordered from Mac's last summer. I replaced the intake and carb at the same time. I ordered a 1957 312 distributor on their website. I had a 57 distributor out of another engine that needed a rebuild. My 57 distributor was the kind with the ball bearing advance plate. The Mac's distributor they sent me was the type with the two piece advance plate. I had no problems installing the Mac's distributor in my '55 292. About two days after I swapped distributors the car quit running and left me on the side of the road. After Triple A towed me home, I replaced the points and condenser with quality parts and have had no issues since. I have put about 600 miles on the car since then with no problems. The car runs great. I hate to pull the distributor to see if the shaft length is correct. The oil looks fine and I have no reason to think there is a problem. Should I be worried?

By Tedster - 7 Years Ago

The NAPA # is "correct" but the dimensions don't sound right.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

They may be expensive if you find one, Mac's (for example) wants $200 for their part #12127-2109 plus a $50 core, which if I had to guess is not included in the catalog price. And then shipping. So likely getting close to 300 bones.

I bought one (as I recall) from this guy several years ago. No problems. Keep in mind if you go this route the supplied points & condensers in the rebuilds are generally no good, and must be replaced with NOS.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F301031593632

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Is this one of the offending units?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323231529274

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

That's an eBay auction. Not one of mine. I wonder if the seller is aware of the problems. Great way to get a buyer upset I'd imagine.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

I'm sure I speak for everybody and say "Thanks" for following up on this and keeping their feet to the fire, unfortunately that's what it takes sometimes. You're doing yeoman's work for the Y Block community.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

The only caveat there, the internal rubber diaphragm is vintage 1957 as well, and may be dried out by now and crispy. Won't last long in service, maybe.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/22/2018)

...if I add the machined surface then it comes into spec. and that was with the shaft pushed up with the collar against the body.

Huh. Well there you have it. Thanks Jim! I owe ya beer.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/21/2018)

Regardless of what type bushing, the Pertronix will put no side force on the shaft like points do. I've been using the Pertronix II for about four years now..

So the bushings were unobtanium for a while I take it, and you sacrificed a housing to get a used one? There's somebody selling them on that auction site for $150 a pop (have to buy all 4 I guess) LOL

Another feller has them machined up for $80 per. I don't get it. They are available (at least for now) NOS for $10 to $20

Did you see the other post upstream a bit? Was hoping when you get a chance, you could measure your distributor dimensions to help solve the Great Endplay Controversy when locating the gear. I'm 99% certain it's measured with the shaft pulled out (down). Gotta be.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/21/2018)

I measured the clearance between the collar and housing with the shaft pulled down. Also after I cut down the rotor I checked this morning and there is no sign of hitting the top inside of the cap as before.

Right, but the gear is measured for 4.991 - 4.996 placement from housing flange to bottom of gear.

With a new gear and shaft new holes have to be drilled. If for example the proper gear clearance measurement is only obtained with the collar pushed up against the housing (or vice versa) then that's the same point I want to measure to locate this new gear on the new shaft. See where I'm goin' with that?

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

They are both disassembled right now. I thought maybe if you had one on the bench or an extra. It should be obvious right away at what position the gear measurement is based upon. I'm not very good at explaining this.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/21/2018)

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

I have the 64 Truck manual, it illustrates the special tool, and the description of removing end play but it was not super clear to me what that meant "take out all the end play". Sure, tighten the screw, but what does that do? Does it pull the shaft tight? Or the other way. No way to tell from the pic. I believe you are correct, arrived at that conclusion based on the first part of the task, installing the collar. It's tough for me to reverse engineer what they were doing with these special tools sometimes without seeing it in person.

The distributor is upside down on the tool at that point. For the collar installation it says install a .002" feeler gauge (.022" makes sense, must be a typo) between the shaft and the special tool. Tighten the screw to remove end play. Remove feeler gauge and let shaft drop. Slide collar flush with housing, drill 1/8" hole, pin the collar, now the end play is set at .022", go for a beer. I figure on using a temporary shim to achieve the clearance, since I don't have all that stuff.

In other exciting developments, the distributor cam and bushing arrived in good order. It appears the advance slots are a fair bit longer. No markings though to indicate distributor degrees like the old one. Did they maybe make a 15 slot in '57? May have to get these brazed up.

What surprised me was just how trashed the old weight pins and slots really were. I knew they were bad (that's why I bought a new one) but I didn't realize how bad till I saw the actual clearance with new pins in the new slots. They really fit with precision.

The bushing received I think is not an oilite, as it has a lubrication hole. It may be CNC or something like that. Dimensions are correct and it definitely needs burnishing or reaming after installation.

I'd like to buy a hand reamer for this task. The nominal shaft diameter is .4675";

15/32nds is .4687";

Is that about right? Would be .0012" clearance or thereabouts. There are reamers available in closer and larger sizes of course. For that matter, what size did Ford use? The manual says "Tool 12132" somewhere, in a dusty manual, there is a description or nomenclature of this tool. Anybody know? Would Ford have listed the nominal size, or is that crazy talk?

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

The bushing doesn't look NOS or supplied in a FoMoCo box or anything like that. It's just like the pic, bronze/copper color. With an oil hole, so I doubt it's oilite.

It did fit fine on an old shaft. After installation into the housing though, no way. I thought maybe if it was just a little on the tight side I could spin the old shaft with some oil and a drill and knock off the high spots, but it's going to take more than that.

The problem is usually the shaft and bushing are best replaced together. The wear is mostly on the bush but if one is trashed the other is getting there.

The measurement should be taken from the flat machined surface at the bottom of the gear is my understanding. If you want to get fancy, from what I'm reading the way to do it is to measure the dimension from the actual thrust surface in the block to the mounting boss on the block. Then, with all that fancy-pants arithmetic and jiggery-pokery that I should have paid more attention to in school instead of Kathy, the proper clearances can be determined so the gear and shaft ends up exactly halfway in the endplay range. The camshaft gear drives the distributor gear down, utilizing the pad in the block as a thrust surface. That's why the measurement should be taken there, or based upon that point anyway. If you can measure the dimension of the individual gear, then subsequent measurements would be easier using the top of the gear. I have three distributor gears on hand and the machined pad dimensions varies quite a bit, and the holes are placed randomly basically. That's at least one reason why they can't be swapped around.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

KULTULZ (8/20/2018)

Where did you come across B7A 12120-A being replaced by B8QH 12120-A?

Nothing official, just going by J. Random Poster @ Ford Trucks Enthusiast. The dimensions appear to be correct, for what that's worth.

Heck, these are just $1 bushings all day long, they simply can't be show stoppers. It's a frigging bushing. They are asking $15 at one outlet.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Not sure, the bushing I ordered from tbirdhq, appears from the pic to be bronze colored, and (I think) has an oil hole. They don't use actual Ford #s on their site, and the places that have either part in stock don't have pics. I thought oilite doesn't need the oil hole though.

The parts will be here soon enough so I'm trying to get a better handle on the dimensions. The bushing gets driven home till it bottoms on the step, located in the base of the housing. This sets the proper bushing height, it still sits proud of the distributor bowl, but the distributor shaft itself should not run on this surface in operation.

So lacking the special tools Ford used, to set the proper endplay and locate the collar on the new shaft, could install (temporarily) a .022" shim or washer on the shaft, on top of the bushing basically. Then, run the collar all the way up flush with the distributor base. Using the collar holes as a guide, drill a 1/8" hole in the new shaft. Remove shim washer, reinstall everything and then pin collar. So now have the 0.022" end play spec'd in the book.

(1st question is why is the spec 0.022" to 0.032"? Wear is the where? Er, where is the wear normally?? It looks like the extra 0.010" spec'd must be the accepted limits past the normal endplay? Remember the shaft doesn't ride on the bushing, so I don't get it. The endplay will never tighten up! If I'm thinking correctly, then in any case 0.022" end play is golden, measured between the collar and housing base. Or do they figure some people will screw up, and up to 0.032" is OK?)

So that leaves locating the gear on the shaft properly. Once again Ford had special tools. Looking at different gear manufacturers like MSD, Crane, whoever, there are different instructions when installing their gears. The Ford manual says "remove endplay" before locating gear. So does everybody else - but, "somebody" is wrong! I think. Because, some folks say pull down, others say push up! I can probably figure it out by looking at the dimensions of the core I have, but.

So what do they mean exactly by that "remove end play" - extending the distributor shaft down as far as it will go by 0.022" OR, pushing up on the distributor shaft so the collar is tight against the housing?

It seems to me the shaft should be pushed up, with the collar against the housing when taking this measurement, and then the gear installed/located 4.991" to 4.996" as measured from mounting flange to bottom of gear. Notice this is different technique than when actually checking for the proper dimensions.

edit: distributor shaft should be extended as far out as it will go. I think. LOL

Keeping in mind the desired result is that the base of the gear should ride directly on the machined thrust surface in the block with a good wear pattern on the gears, while at the same time the distributor shaft weight should not ride on the bushing, ideally keeping the end play to a minimum etc etc.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

They are porous yes, made of powdered metal. There are both steel and bronze oilite bushing types. When tapped, I could tell it wasn't tool steel or anything like that, because it was a little "crunchy". What you are calling steel is maybe what's known as Super oilite 16, gotta be oilite bushing of some kind anyway now that I think about it.

"Oilite is formed using powder metallurgy so that tiny pores are present in the metal. The pores are then vacuum impregnated with an oil to improve the material’s bearing ability. The material holds approximately 20% oil by volume."

Yeah for the dimension what I can do is re-assemble one of the cores and then measure, can figure out where the measurement is based upon. Maybe. LOL

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Jim, do you have an extra 'strib laying around? If you get a chance, measure the gear dimension from the mounting flange to the bottom of the distributor gear, the flat machined thrust surface. It should be obvious (I think) right away from which direction the endplay is taken up prior to locating the gear. Pretty sure it's taken with the distributor shaft pulled down but I'd like to get a warm and fuzzy on this.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

KULTULZ (8/21/2018)

You are working with a 1963 292 LT distributor? What is the ID NO.?

1964 F100, the Shop manual says Distributor No. C3TF-12127-K, have two (2) C3TF cores on hand. One was probably original to the engine but no idea which one specifically.

The question pertains to whether the distributor shafts available are serviceable for more years than Mac's or Carpenters allows. I'm aware the breaker plate changed, the vacuum advance etc, but it appears the distributor shaft "should" work for a number of different applications.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

KULTULZ (8/21/2018)

I have a hard time trying to decipher sites such as those. If I need something, I search by the actual PN.

That being said, The B7A 12175-A shaft was used on the 292 through end of pass car production (1962)

Well that's really the issue isn't it. Sometimes they don't use Ford part numbers or just make up their own. So it's left to the repairer to try and figure out what's what and what will actually work.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

OK, ran a 1/2-13 coarse tap into the worn bushing and used a bolt to drive it out. It doesn't look like bronze but it takes threads nice. Easey Peasey. It looks to me there's a step in the distributor housing to set the bushing height, figured there had to be.

There is a typo (I think) in the '64 Shop manual, they specify .002" clearance when locating the collar (on a new shaft), the endplay spec is 0.022" - 0.032", and in later manuals for the same task on say a 302 or whatever, they use 0.022", this confused me for a while, but that's pretty easy to do.

The manual says that the distributor shaft and distributor gear are replaced as an assembly, e.g. one part should not be replaced without replacing the other. This deal is in keeping with many of my projects, a simple $7.00 points replacement ends up costing 200 bucks and about 12 hours of labor and scouring the intertubes for parts. Since I have two cores I might build another one up and keep it as a spare in case the Pertronix dies, or sell it and recoup some costs.

The distributor shaft is listed as B7A-12175-A , I see on eBay Mac's has this part available, as two different application/ vendor part #s under the same Ford part number. Both are listed for 1960-1962 ?? Seems to me the 14 tooth gear and shaft should work fine from 59-64?

60-29513-1
60-29513-2

For example:

Distributor Shaft & Cam Assembly - 292 & 312 V8 - Mercury

Part Number: 60-29513-1

Brand: Dennis Carpenter

Distributor Shaft & Cam Assembly - 292 & 312 V8 - Mercury

Can anyone shed some light on correct part numbers and availability? Is this another unicorn part??

It does appear that the business end where the reluctor rides and springs attach, this has a roll pin as well. So I guess parts could be swapped if required. I just want the shaft and bushing and everything on the same sheet of music. New gear, shaft, bushing should run true.

One of the cores the shaft is bent at the oil pump side. How the hell does that even happen? I don't know the history of that distributor, maybe the oil pump locked up somewhere back in time?

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

This distributor is a C3TF (truck) it has just the single bushing. I drove the spring or roll pin out of the upper part of the shaft that secures the springs and weights, seeing if it can be broken down further but it wouldn't budge. Trying some penetrating oil.

The bushing # is (I think) B8HQ-12120-A one thing, Dennis Carpenter buys a lot of obsolete inventory from dealerships or whatever. They have these, I guess, (and tbirdhq.com does too) ; DC keeps a lot of NOS parts that are not listed on their website. They show up on RearCounter though. The bushing itself should cross to a common part any supply house should have. The spec for wear is max ID of 0.4690"; shaft is 0.4675"; distributor body has an oil passageway into the bushing area. But the bushing itself, it doesn't look like oilite? I dunno. Always thought oilite was the brass colored stuff.

Cleaned the breaker plate up. It has the three nylon buttons, but not the plastic dingus on the bottom, nor the stop. It looks like it's all there though.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Well I guess you were determined to get thing outta there /jk

Yup, there was just sludge in the cavity seemed like. Bushing did take threads like butter though, maybe it's some kind of steely oilite ??

Tbirdhq has it listed as a 57/66 bushing under 12120, think it has a hole in the side?

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Dennis Carpenter and Mustangs Etc. are supposed to have the bushings, according to Rearcounter.com Thing is, this part and other 'strib parts don't show up at their website when inputting the part #s. So what is the deal with Rearcounter anyway? How and why do they know inventory that the site in question does not? Strange.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/19/2018)

That may not be sludge, there is a wick in there. I like that bushing with the hole. My bushing seems like hardened steel ?
So many variations over the years..

Yeah I saw the wick, I meant the cavity between the housing and bushing. Well I ordered one of the distributor shafts and a gear. In for a penny, in for a pound I guess.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/19/2018)

A lot of the time REAR COUNTER tells me some one has XXXX but when you contract them they tell me they don't..
Good luck I hope you get the bushing.

Ok wanted to back up a bit here, an earlier part number for the "upper" bushing (Y Block distributors have only one) is B7A-12120-A (replaced or superceded by B8HQ-12120-A); a search on the former also finds several on hand at a few different vendors, many of the same ones.

The dimensions are listed as: (.469" ID, .688" OD, 1.75" LONG); these numbers jibe exactly with the bushing removed from one of the cores yesterday. Whether it matters which number is ordered, or they are different as a practical matter I dunno. Looks to me though, they are just fine, plus, any supply house should have an equivalent bushing.

The distributor gear - FAE-12390-A these are all over the place in terms of dimensions with respect to the thrust surface thickness and even where the pilot holes are drilled. This is why the manual cautions (I think) they can't be swapped around. So long as the gear is not excessively worn if the dimensions are adhered to by proper placement on the shaft they "should" be able to be re-used, seems to me.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (8/15/2018)

Whats the complete Part # ? I can check Parts Catalog and see what they fit.

Well that's just it, I don't know the full part #, I wrote Bill Wilson but haven't heard back. B7A is a guess, but. I think the '57 cam might be correct judging from pics, but I've seen this movie before.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

KULTULZ (8/15/2018)

Basic PN 12210 is the points actual cam.

Yes. This is a unicorn component these days I guess. What happens is the advance slots get banged up and worn excessively, and the centrifugal flyweight pins that ride in them also get grooved. Then the mechanical advance gets stuck, or erratic/sloppy. The '57 and later "should" work judging by some online pics but I don't want to order the wrong part. Thanks for your help.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Yeah that's what I have now, it's marked 13L but it's pretty trashed. 24, 26 deg. at the crank, that doesn't matter too much does it? Just add in a little more or less initial timing?

The part they have, the full Ford # is B9AF-12210-A ; if it's the same as 289/302 it seems like it would be a commonly available part??

If I do a goolag search it just gets one hit at rearcounter.com and nobody has any. Images search just shows a bunch of houses. "Here's a picture of a bunny with a pancake on its head" basically.

Found a pic of what they are selling and it looks right. I mic'd the other old distributor shaft laying around and they seem to hold up pretty good. I believe with a new oilite bushing installed, some new weights &c etc. it will hold spec even when running points. The trick will be to sneak up on bushing height in the housing exactly the same. It sits a little proud of the base. Don't want to have to drill new holes in the shaft for the collar or gear, don't have a drill press.

Spent an hour looking for the other old distributor cam, and couldn't find it, though the special brass vacuum advance carburetor fitting DID turn up, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/15/2018)

Ted,
It's just my personal choice, I like more initial timing, I use 12 + the 24 mechanical for a total of 36.
B9AF-12210-A That appears to be a 59 part number and would only have 24 degrees.

We'll see what shows up, went ahead ordered one, along with some other goodies. They call it a '57 anyway.

The difference back then, everything wasn't worn out! Thanks to everyone who responded, since it crosses to '64 IRL, even on a tach drive strib should be golden.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/15/2018)

FORD DEARBORN (8/15/2018)

Thank you for confirming that.
Ted, I would grab that 59 piece, I own three Ford V8's, Y, FE, 302 and in all my travels to different sites and suppliers I have never seen that part for sale..

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Distributor End Play Revisited

Trying to get a handle on exactly what the deal is, where the wear is actually occuring, and how to accurately measure since it is a critical dimension.

By way of comparison the '64 shop manual sez to use a dial indicator, distributor installed in the engine, when measuring end play with the LOM distributor. "Push the distributor shaft _down_ as far as it will go, set the dial indicator to zero, and pull the distributor shaft up as far as it will go, and measure end play."

For the post '56 distributors that we are mostly concerned with here distributor is to be removed from the engine, installed in the clamping tool and placed in a vise.

"Push the distributor shaft _upward_ as far as it will go, then check the endplay with a feeler gauge placed between the collar and the distributor base. The end play should be within specifications."

So where are they going with this? I measured the resulting gap between the collar and base with shaft pulled down as far as it will go in the earlier pic. That was bass ackwards correct? I'll have to check the distributor again as it is installed but the other core on hand easily bottoms out or near enough checked the correct way.

So the idea here is that the camshaft gear tends to drive the distributor gear to run flush with the block thrust surface right? Then, on deceleration or whatever it tends to move off the pad and float up? Seems to me if I'm thinking right I need to add a shim between the collar and the distributor base to get the dimension correct. If so, where does the wear occur, the distributor housing?

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

All I can determine is that the location of the collar itself sets the endplay if it is measured by pushing the distributor shaft up. I must be overthinking it. The manual isn't very clear though.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

I suspect that's why the Loadomatic distributor endplay can be checked with the distributor installed, but the '57 and later cannot.

If the distributor cam &c., is removed then a dial indicator would work fine when distributor is installed. Tracking now.

It may be the "holding tool" they describe in the dual strib manual procedure puts the distributor upside down or some BS like that, I wish they would have just written that the "gap between the collar and distributor base must be 0.022"- 0.032"

Now that all is right in the world, shimming clearance closer to the 0.022" side of things would make for steadier dwell when running points no? That is to say, a closer tolerance is better than the high side of things, assuming the gear is located accurately?

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Yes, the wobble in the shaft is seen or measured easily on a scope when measuring dwell angle, is a better way to put it. Wobble and endplay, two different things, both bad. If the distributor cam surface is worn the points rubbing block will ride on a slightly different spot of the cam because of excess end play, that would change the point gap slightly. If the shaft is wobbling, it would also change the point gap. I think.

Now this is from a Plymouth site, but the principle is the same. In the pic, the author suggests that no more than a .006" point gap change is allowable. That sounds like too much to me, but. See:

http://www.plymouthcarclub.com/2018/02/replacing-distributor-bushings/

Heck, all I know is the ignition display when running a worn distributor and points looks like an unbalanced clothes washer on spin cycle!

Here is a primary superimposed (I think), when using Pertronix. It's "OK"; spec is supposed to be no more than 2 or 3 degrees. When I tried points it was jumping all over the place. One thing I noticed too, is sometimes rotors don't fit tightly depending who made them. If they are loose that won't help anything either. It all adds up.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

I got a line on a vendor who says they have five NOS distributor cam rotors on hand, base # 12210 ; but, they are for a '57 T bird distributor. "I'm wonderin" if maybe that's a tach drive distributor, and (naturally) uses a different rotor, won't fit anything other than that year etc. Anytime some unicorn part shows up, it's always something like that. Anybody know?

What I could do maybe is get somebody to braze up the slots on this tired old rotor and grind back to original dimensions, similar to when limiting total advance. I should have another rotor cam around here somewhere, maybe it's in better shape but I can't find it. Dang gremlins.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Huh, didn't know that. I saw a couple on that auction site and they wanted stupid money for them.

I'm no machinist but it can't be a major deal wouldn't think. Ream it out oversize and install a bushing or sleeve? Are the lower gears available? Those wear too and probably reach a level of backlash or slop too.

It was REALLY interesting to look at the scope patterns. Bearing tolerances generally are always very small numbers, and wear slowly but, once those limits are approached it accelerates and exceeds the limits very quickly. The patterns jiggled (is that a word?) in time with the lope of the idle. If I had to guess the distributor bushings wear in an egg shape.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (8/10/2018)

I purchased a NOS original 60-64 Light Truck 292 Y-Block Distributor on Ebay on Wed .Autolite DA-647 in the Box. Not rebuilt but later brand new Ford replacement Distributor with the Triangular shape Body below the Bowl.

"You" (as the kids say these days) "Suck!"

Gotta link? I looked for it a little while, couldn't find it. Just so I can get depressed and think what might have been. Wink

Last night checked mechanical advance with a light, hooked the vacuum advance back up and took it for a highway spin. Seems to run better than ever. Think I can bump up the initial maybe a little bit from 10° or so and loosen the springs for a little more zip but it's pretty good right now.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Found it. Nice score! You still suck Wink

Let me know if you want to sell it.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Here's one for the Lincoln Y Block. Would this style work? Certainly looks right... but.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

It's on that auction site. A little spendy but it's there if somebody wants it.

I like the external primary wire connection arrangement w/ square stud and phenolic spacer.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (8/10/2018)Forgot to mention I asked If He was open to an Offer and He took $10.00 off the listed Price."Frosting on the Cake!".

Sure, just twist the knife pal Wink

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

oldcarmark (8/8/2018)

There is no point in contacting the Seller of these 30-2808. They all come from Cardone and that's where the Problem is.. I contacted Cardone several Times regarding the "problem" with these 30-2808 Distributors. They are ADAMANT that there is nothing wrong with them and basically get LOST and stop bothering us. Nice Eh? Stay way from their Junk unless U want to end up with Engine Damage. I also contacted Pertronox with the suggestion that they might want to look at producing stock Type Distributors for Y-Blocks. No response from them.

Now I better understand why you were a little torqued early on. What was I thinking? I Thought a reseller or vendor would, at least at one level, need and want to know a product they are selling is not only defective but could cause major engine damage. I know if I were selling them, I would. Who needs the liability?But, as they say, - "No good deed goes unpunished."

There's definitely a brave new "Que Sera Sera" attitude goin' on these days. How many vendors for example, have stopped selling those shitty ignition condensers? Not a one, near as I can tell. I could never knowingly sell a product to someone that will likely leave them stranded on the side of the road.

Yes, it is our responsibility to ensure parts fit correctly but it is also their responsibility to market products that work when they advertise it to be so!

"Hey! Wanna buy a Y block distributor?" Heck yeah! "Well it, it may not work. We're not sure, not sure if it will fit. Might ruin your engine. Just send it back if it ain't right."

In contract terms it falls under warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, and they can't just slap a sticker on the box "too bad so sad". Technically they would have to sell their products "As-is". The customer has an expectation that when he buys a Y block distributor, it's going to fit and is designed and constructed in a workmanlike way.

....And you kids get off my lawn!!

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

KULTULZ (8/8/2018)

That boilerplate BS makes them even more complicit! They know damn well it's a critical thing, yet they will sell a defective product. A "Beware Of Dog" sign never helps the homeowner, if something were to happen. Same principle applies.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/8/2018)

Tedster (8/8/2018)

I bet that's the answer, and/or tool steel bushing just lasts longer. Installed the original issue distributor today and installed points just to see what's what. While there was no perceptible sideplay, the scope waveforms sure showed there was. I never thought about it before but there's about 1 pound of force the rubbing block places on the distributor cam off and on 300 times a minute say at idle x 8 lobes. ANY slop or clearance in the shaft/bushings out of roundness is going to show up. It idled OK with points but a little "lopey" and the scope patterns displayed that in time, re-installed the Pertronix and it was MUCH better and idled stronger and smoothed out. I'll have to look at getting it rebushed. Anybody have a FoMoCo part number or standard industry cross?

The spiral oil groove is a later thing, on SBF ain't it? None on the Y Block cores I have.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

57RancheroJim (8/9/2018)

Yes, but the Ford spec 17 to 22 ounces point spring pressure, that's a pound of force rapping on the side of the shaft, and most all of the cores available today are going to be loosey goosey. Any appreciable wear in the bushings will affect smoothness of tune. I'm certain this is a big reason the solid state modules are so popular, the distributors in collector cars are all wallered out. The electronic modules are not affected by this as badly.

The other '64 truck core I have, unfortunately on closer inspection is bent at the gear end. Can see it wobble noticeably. How does a distributor shaft get bent like that? Bad stuff I'm sure, but. Explains why I could never set the dwell consistently years ago.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Went through my stash of parts and have two rebuildable cores, is there an application chart somewhere listing what these came out of exactly?

C3TF A 12127 2MB
C3TF K 12127 4FC

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

KULTULZ (5/31/2018)[

2MB and 4FC are date codes.

Hm, I thought C3 was the date code, and T of course means truck etc., the shop manual sez K suffix designates 292 V8 but is silent on the rest.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

Jeeze Louise. I "assumed" since I bought a remann Cardone a couple years ago I was OK.

Not. The distributor driven gear in these counterfeits will only engage on the bottom half, or less judging by the wear pattern.

So I'm looking at rebuilding one of the cores I have laying around. DC assures me they have the old, "fat comma" style advance weights in stock, though I can't find them on their site. B7A-12188-A The problem with these, is the slot pins, though made of hardened steel, get grooves worn into them.

The distributor cam itself though, the slots also show some wear. Probably be OK, but if anyone has access to the part # for these that would be great, I believe this was actually an Autolite distributor. 13L is stock I believe.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

OK, that will work. Out of the two extras on hand one of them unfortunately has a noticeably bent distributor shaft at the gear end just eyeballing it and giving it a spin. This probably explains why I could never get the dwell within spec all those years ago LOL

The other was a little crusty but after a stint in the parts washer has cleaned up pretty nice and has good endplay. Good castings back then. I was able to put together a set of weights that aren't too worn, I think, we'll see. The breaker plate and vacuum advance will swap over, and will try the cam. So I think I'm back in business. Have an ignition scope to use and we'll see if the internal clearances are OK, the primary waveform will indicate excess wobble or play.

By Tedster - 6 Years Ago

GREENBIRD56 (8/8/2018)

Yes, cleaning one up now. The cam I have on hand is 13L, is stock to my applcation iirc. What did you end up using, two light springs? Bending the tabs to loosen tension? Here's where a distributor machine would be sweet.

26° at the crank + 10° initial should be right in there at 36° or so, plus another 12° or so when vacuum is pulled in at steady cruise. That is the factory curve but getting it to come in early is the trick. Usually on the trucks it will still be advancing past 4000

By 1960fordf350 - 6 Years Ago

I have that unit. It's worked 4 yrs in my truck without a hiccup. The distributor gear is just a little higher on the shaft than a stock unit. On mine the shaft is .100 shorter from the bottom of the gear to the end of the shaft. Like I said, 4yrs running in my truck. It's out currently because my block is getting bored.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/43be08cf-3710-44ec-88ff-61e5.jpg

By cuda66 - 6 Years Ago

Just joined this site today and I know that this post is from last year but I'd like to add my 2 cents worth on this topic.

How about a Ford Y-Block Ready to Run Distributor that's MADE IN USA!!!
Ford Y-Block 272-312 1955 thru 1960's Thunderbird and all Cars and TrucksIf your tired of the poor running condition, changing the points, rich idle, poor fuel economy of your Y-Block?
The MSD, Mallory and the Chinese Imports units are too obtrusive and don't fit properly in your Baby Bird?
Would you like to maintain a stock Ford Appearance with both Mechanical and Vacuum advance, stock plug wire configuration, multi-spark to 10,000 RPM, built in REV Limiter to protect your investment, start sensor technology to increase voltage when cranking for quick clean starts, 2 wire hook-up and eliminate the ballast resister?
We build them!
Using a Pertronix as Cast 302 distributor with Ignitor 3 module we use the lower portion of the Y-Block stock distributor shaft and machine a press fit sleeve to connect the 2 shafts, we then cross drill and pin the sleeve with it set to factory spec. We've been doing this for several years and with well over 200 units firing Y-Blocks perfectly in at least 10 country's around the world and they have proven to be flawless. The Ignitor 3 module is warranted for 30 months by Pertronix and we are so confident in our workmanship we warranty the distributor for 5 YEARS. Each distributor is curved and phased to maximize the ability to burn today's fuel formulations, to any engine modifications and the drive line of the car that it will be installed in for perfect results right out of the box. These distributors use a top and BOTTOM bearing to keep your shaft running perfectly true in the block, new cast Aluminum housing, rust protection coating on internal steel components, machined thrust surface and a brass contact high quality cap.

Quick Easy Starts, REV Limiter Protection, common Caps & Rotors (mid 80's 302 Ford), Backed by the best warranty in the industry, Built by experts with over 50 years experience!
Before you invest a penny in an imported ignition part with no Tech Support and no warranty or a so called "rebuilt" distributor that won't work with today's fuel formulations even if it was perfectly built and neither will be curved correctly for your application resulting in mediocre to poor results every time, just read over the details on our custom Y-Blocks I'm sure when it's time to upgrade your ignition you'll see there's nothing more reliable and better built. Search Google "FBO Y block distributors"

Full size Image: http://4secondsflat.com/Y-blockIg3-1.jpg

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/6d34eed4-152c-4a0d-983e-55e6.jpg

Also listed on eBay Item # 222649424535, but if you call us direct and mention this site we'll knock off $25. We'll also drop the core charge from $50 to $25.
We also buy Y-Block distributors gears... all we need is the lower shaft piece and we'll pay $25 plus the cost of Priority mail

Cut Here:

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/uploads/images/870e102e-e246-453e-a5d2-88b6.jpg

By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago

I have a comment on this shaft length issue. Did you ever notice that the bottom of the driven gear is machined? I think this is because the machined surface mates with the machined surface in the block. The angle of the teeth on the camshaft would tend to push the distributor gear down and the machined surfaces would become a thrust surface. If the gear location is 1/4" short, not only would the gear mesh be off, but the thrust surfaces would not touch. The thrust surface would become the bottom of the distributor housing bowl and the flange on the shaft. That area is typically not well lubed, so wear will be present. Just my 2 cents.

As for the load-o-matic shaft exchange, the shafts would not interchange. But, the load-o-matic and SBF shafts could be cut and spliced to get the desired length. Back in the sixties I wanted mechanical advance for my '56 Bird, so I grafted the lower part of the '56 shaft to the upper part of the '57 shaft and gained mechanical advance while keeping the tach drive. I couldn't afford a '57 Bird distributor then, and still can't. I have a couple hundred thousand miles on my hybrid with no problems.

By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago

Duuuhhhh! Why didn't I think of this before. I talked about splicing the shafts to get the correct length. Why not take a Cardone distributor, cut the shaft somewhere between the gear and the housing, and weld in a piece of shaft to lengthen it. It's a shame to have to do that, but if it makes it work I guess it is worth it.

By Hoosier Hurricane - 6 Years Ago

By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago

I'm not around a known good one to check at the moment, so assuming that the originals you have measured have nothing wrong, then I'd say Napa (probably Cardone) has something wrong with the distributors they are providing.
I think small block distributors are shorter, but otherwise indistinguishable. I don't know that spec, though. I wonder if they don't have Y-block shafts and have mistakenly assumed that it is the same as that for another engine. Does the tooth count match?

By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago

There's a post on the Facebook Y-Block group about a similar problem with Cardone. I'm pretty sure that no matter where you get the distributor or how it is branded, it is actually a Cardone, so there must be a problem with them.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

If you buy a remanufactured distributor, it will most likely be Cardone, no matter who you get it from or the brand on the packaging. The best thing at this point seems to be to take the distributor to a shop that actually does rebuilds in house. I don't have any suggestions for that.

If you try another vendor, find out where theirs are rebuilt and state the issue with Cardone and that you don't want to receive one with the same issue. If they say theirs is different, try it but make sure to get the name of the person you spoke with. That way, if it is just more of the same, you have some recourse - they should refund in full and pay return shipping.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

I think I have some I can measure tomorrow, if I remember.

Sounds like they're trying to find a way to justify the problem, something like "enough of the shaft engages, so it's fine" despite the other issues. Good original distributor vs theirs should be all that is needed.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

Better late than never, hopefully. I have 3 to measure. All engage the distributor by about 3/8" from the tip but the taper of the tip is about 1/8" so that is 1/4" of effective engagement.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

If the distributor shafts are 1/2" shorter, then none of the pump shaft can be engaged, everything else equal. If they work at all, then something else is different and making up the difference in length.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

Might be a good time for people looking for a distributor to start asking Pertronix. They make pretty reasonably priced stock looking distributors for other engines. If enough people ask there's a slim chance they could do it. All they would really have to do is make a shaft and source a gear. Everything else from the distributor body up, which they already produce for other Fords, should work. This is practically what that other guy does.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

That is a great find.

By charliemccraney - 6 Years Ago

That could be a good sign.