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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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Hi all,
This is my first Y-block and first post. I'd like to go to electronic ignition and would appreciate any advice you could give me on the kits I've located below, or any other kits you would recommend.
AIRTEX/WELLS 1A4087 $189 RockAuto
Standard Motor Products LX809 $199 RockAuto
Pertronix 1281 I-$64 Summit
Pertronix 91281 II-$100 Summit
I do have an off the line minor stumble, so I would also like to rebuild the 2bbl carb. I located the numbers below on the carb. The carb tag was missing. Could anyone tell me the proper rebuild kit I should order?
1.02
92S
5752305
Autolite 4TY (on the choke cap)
Sorry, I'm sure these questions have been asked before. I went through the first 12 pages in the Technical section and didn't find what I was looking for, so I decided to just ask.
Thank you so much for your time and knowledge.
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By oldcarmark - 8 Years Ago
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If You decide to use to use Pertronix use the Pertronix II NOT 1. If You have the 1 Version and leave the ignition Key "On" without Engine running the Pertronix 1 will burn out quickly before you realize the Key is on. Pertronix II does not have this Problem. You didn't indicate what Year or Size Y-Block You have.
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By Gene Purser - 8 Years Ago
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It looks like you have the '57 up distributor.
That Airtex/wells unit looks just like the Pertronix Ignitor 1. It could be a re-labled Pertronix. If so, the Pertronix costs a lot less.
edit: I just looked at pictures of the Standard unit on amazon and Summit's web pages and it also looks like the Pertronix.
I would venture that all you listed are made by Pertronix.
This one by Accel seems to be different: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/acc-2020/overview/year/1957/make/ford/model/fairlane
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By Daniel Jessup - 8 Years Ago
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I have used three different ACCEL #2020 kits over the past several years on Y blocks. Never any trouble with any of them. The price point, ease of installation and use, and the "pointless" ignition are all positives.
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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I have a Pertronix II (with matching coil) on my 56 Bird now for about 4 years with no problems.
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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (10/20/2017)
If You decide to use to use Pertronix use the Pertronix II NOT 1. If You have the 1 Version and leave the ignition Key "On" without Engine running the Pertronix 1 will burn out quickly before you realize the Key is on. Pertronix II does not have this Problem. You didn't indicate what Year or Size Y-Block You have.
My Y-block is a 1958 292, in a 1958 Ford Custom 300 with a Fordomatic.
I think I'll go with the Pertronix or Accel kit. Just to be sure, the Pertronix I #1281 and Pertronix II #91281 listed for 1958 FE's, will work on the 1958 Y-blocks, right?
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By oldcarmark - 8 Years Ago
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59FE258Y (10/21/2017)
oldcarmark (10/20/2017)
If You decide to use to use Pertronix use the Pertronix II NOT 1. If You have the 1 Version and leave the ignition Key "On" without Engine running the Pertronix 1 will burn out quickly before you realize the Key is on. Pertronix II does not have this Problem. You didn't indicate what Year or Size Y-Block You have. My Y-block is a 1958 292, in a 1958 Ford Custom 300 with a Fordomatic. I think I'll go with the Pertronix or Accel kit. Just to be sure, the Pertronix I #1281 and Pertronix II #91281 listed for 1958 FE's, will work on the 1958 Y-blocks, right?
Yes that is correct. The reason I asked is that 55-56 Distributors are different and those Pertronix don't fit those.
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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks for all the information on electronic ignitions, I really appreciate it. It's nice to get information from people who know from experience. I took the picture below at Donut Derelicts today. Very cool to check out side by side what Ford and scruby were offering up in 1956.
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By Ted - 8 Years Ago
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There are different ohm ratings on the various coils and these must be matched up with the particular electronic conversion you decide to go with.
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By oldcarmark - 8 Years Ago
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Ted (10/22/2017)
There are different ohm ratings on the various coils and these must be matched up with the particular electronic conversion you decide to go with.
And some Conversions with proper Coil eliminates the Ballast Resistor. Check Manufacturers Website for correct Information about Coils and Ballast Resister. I know that My Pertronix II and Flamethrower Coil do NOT require the Ballast Resistor .
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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Mine is the same
And some Conversions with proper Coil eliminates the Ballast Resistor. Check Manufacturers Website for correct Information about Coils and Ballast Resister. I know that My Pertronix II and Flamethrower Coil do NOT require the Ballast Resistor .
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By DryLakesRacer - 8 Years Ago
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59FE....doesn't the 56 have a late model engine in it like the blu/wht 56 courier that comes there too?
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By Talkwrench - 8 Years Ago
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Ted (10/22/2017)
There are different ohm ratings on the various coils and these must be matched up with the particular electronic conversion you decide to go with.
Yes and don't go putting the unit in a flogged out dissy or you will have trouble . Must be
full 12volts to it .. Go the Pertronix ignitor III its not that much more if you hunt around.
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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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I will definitely check on the ballast resistor for the 1958 set up. I've matched the Pertronix II 91281 kit with the 45011 Flame Thrower II coil. I'll also check out the Pertronix III before ordering. I've seen a couple responses to not use an electronic conversion kit on a worn out distributor. Can this be checked, by seeing if there's slop in the distributors' points cam?
On Summit a question was asked if the 45011 coil being oil filled, could be mounted horizontally and Kenneth, from Mi. answered "no". Is Kenneth from Mi. correct? The coil on my 58 is mounted horizontally from the factory.
Both the red 56 and the blue and white 56 wagon had their hoods closed the whole time, so I never got a look at their engine bays. I did take a couple of pics of the wagon. It's the blue and white original colors of my sedan, plus I like the way he did up his wheels.
 
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By DryLakesRacer - 8 Years Ago
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Not that matters much but my blue and white 56 Victoria is usually the only one with the hood up; but I don't always. The Couriers owner and I are friends and I remember when the red 2door was there forsale and it was a very good buy. Most of the time the 3 56's are there and occasionally a black 56 Fairlane 2 dr sedan with a purple top shows up.
One of the nicest E-code 57 convertables I've ever seen shows too. Light green with a tan top. Factory AC and I think every box was checked when ordered; with full restoration. Recently a 58 flip top has been there but without a Y-block.
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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On my Pertronix II with matching pertronix coil, I have it mounted horizontally and haven't had any problems. been 4 or 5 years.
59FE258Y (10/23/2017)
On Summit a question was asked if the 45011 coil being oil filled, could be mounted horizontally and Kenneth, from Mi. answered "no". Is Kenneth from Mi. correct? The coil on my 58 is mounted horizontally from the factory.
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By DryLakesRacer - 8 Years Ago
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I agree same with my Pertronix ll; I used their recommended coil, it's mounted horizonal, and i still use my factory ballast resister. 5yrs for me,
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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It is best to mount oil filed coils vertically. Epoxy filled coils can be mounted in any position.
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By Rono - 8 Years Ago
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Charlie; I have heard that before regarding the orientation of the coils and I do believe it. I don't know if these "Flamethrower" and MSD "Blaster" coils are oil filled or epoxy? Do you know? On a related topic, I also am running the Pertronix Ignitor II ignition and up until recently, the Flamethrower coil. However, Iwas also running a early (10 year old) MSD Blaster ignition box until it went bad recently. I replaced the box with a newer MSD Street Fire (CD) ignition (Model # 5520) for good idle but it also has a built in rev limiter. The Tech support at MSD said I had to use an MSD (Blaster) coil not the Pertronix Flamethrower coil to get the correct spark. I took his advice and things seem to be fine, but I was surprised that I needed to change coils.
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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It's usually stated in the product description if it is oil filled or epoxy.
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By FORD DEARBORN - 8 Years Ago
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Greetings to all: Both brands, Pertronix & MSD offer oil filled and epoxy filled canister coils. It's been said that oil filled coils may run hotter if mounted horizontally due to an air space above the coil core and the can and the epoxy coils are only a few $ more. I have been running a Flamethrower epoxy coil, 1.5 ohms primary fired by a Pertronix Ignitor ll and no ballast resistor for several years with no problems. Hope this helps, JEFF...............................
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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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I checked out the PerTronix II epoxy filled coil and got a part number of 45111. It says on Summit Q and A that the 45111 can also be used as the coil for the PerTronix III electronic ignition conversion kit.
DryLakesRacer, I didn't see the E-code 57 convertible, but I have seen a real nice pale blue or green 1957 Fairlane there before. I did see the red and white 58 retractable, the owner said it had a 352 and cruise o matic.
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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To be certain about the compatability between Pertronix Ignitors and coils, refer to Pertronix site. You can download the instructions for each product and they have charts indicating which coil works with which ignitor.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 8 Years Ago
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Is the main idea to come up with a rugged canister style coil - or one that is compatible with the modern electronics?
The modern "E-Core" coils are a lot easier to come by in a low resistance / high temp configuration. The Pertronix III uses a low Ohm coil to maximize performance - but it will also operate the older higher resistance coils. The electronic "brain" (initially patented and offered by Motorola) uses its internal circuitry to fully "saturate" whatever coil you install on there. But......you only get the amount of "power" the coil can contain, it uses Amps to get the job done - not volts like a CD set-up. This control circuitry really puts a lot of load (heat) on one of the older design canister coils , and if you wish for them to live - a ballast resistor is needed to keep the heat down - which then limits the performance to that of "yesteryear".
This trace (above) shows the amount of power stored in a 4.0 Ohm coil. It is essentially proportional to the area under the "curve". A point ignition can do this - dual points adds a little more area.
This trace (above) shows the power packed into a .50 Ohm coil by the transistor fired, induction ignition - like an HEI or Pertronix III controller utilizing a Motorola style operating scheme. It really needs a low resistance "E-Core" coil to handle the electrical load. That load would kill a set of points - or an earlier model Pertronix - so don't go there.
This is an "E-Core" coil for an S-10 v6 chebby motor - that is designed to be used with the modern electronics. They are quite in-expensive compared with the aftermarket parts - and deliver the same sort of jolt to the plugs.........
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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks for all the info, it's a bit overwhelming! My main goal is to get the ease and reliability of an electronic ignition and the matching coil that goes with it. I've pretty much, with all the information I have received, decided to go PerTronix II or III ignition and PerTronix II coil. I was good with that until I read that the oil filled coils should not be mounted horizontally, and of course that's exactly how my 58's is mounted. There are several opinions from very knowledgeable Y-block owners on the horizontal/ vertical coil set-up, so I think what I'll do is make a bracket to mount the coil vertically or go with an epoxy coil.
Greenbird56, am I correct that your top chart shows the sparks' power and duration of a point/ condenser ignition, and the lower chart, the sparks' power and duration of an electronic ignition?
Thanks again for all the answers I'm getting!
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By GREENBIRD56 - 8 Years Ago
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Both of them show inductive ignitions - electronically fired by the exact same controller (not points). They trigger transistors that are way faster to gate than points. The rise and capacity shown are being governed by the coil design.
The controller is using all of the dwell it can fit in. The higher resistance coils are slower at charging so in the time allowed, in-rush current is lower - therefore they hold less energy than the low resistance versions. To keep the old design coils from failing from the increased electrical energy, you typically have to degrade them even further by fitting a ballast resistor.
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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There are some vertical mount brackets available. Here are some available through Summit, https://www.summitracing.com/search?SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=vertical%20coil%20bracket
Get the hottest igntion you can afford. It will be a big improvement to overall driveability, particularly as temperatures get colder. You can even make a bracket to mount an e-core in the stock location.
Here's an example. This one is made out of 3/16" 3003 aluminum and bent in a vice with a bfh. The one on the left is an old version which prevented the removal of the valve cover with the coil in place. Plastic washers and bushings are installed to help isolate it from intake heat. This setup has been in place for 8 years, daily driven, so it is reliable.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Good idea Charlie. I have my oil filled pertronix mounted horizontally, I didn't want it mounted on the firewall. I'm going to make an angle bracket similar to yours and mount the coil vertically to it.
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By 59FE258Y - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks for explaining the charts again for me Steve. I've learned a ton of ignition info over the last few days. charleymccraney, I'm going to use that coil adapter angle bracket, it's a great idea. Thanks for putting it up.
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