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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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I'm looking for a set of push rods for a new engine. I see there are two manufacturers, Melling and Elgin. Any brand better that the other?
The vendor that I am looking at is on ebay, Classic Engine Supply in Iowa. Any one know anything about this vendor?
Thanks
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By Small block - 8 Years Ago
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Both Elgin and Melling are Stock replacement quality parts, I have used Both and have had good luck with both. From my experience
The Melling Lifters are better Quality than Seal Power!
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By PF Arcand - 8 Years Ago
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If you want Y-Block lifters (?) I believe J Mummert has them & I think (Vern) Schumann Sales is also in Iowa. He at one time advertised valve train parts. Unfortunately, Schumann is not on the internet, as far as I know..
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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I already got cam and lifters from John. Unfortunately, John could not supply the push rods so I had to look some where else. Ebay has both makes so I plan to buy from there.
PF Arcand (10/26/2017)
If you want Y-Block lifters (?) I believe J Mummert has them & I think (Vern) Schumann Sales is also in Iowa. He at one time advertised valve train parts. Unfortunately, Schumann is not on the internet, as far as I know..
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By DryLakesRacer - 8 Years Ago
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Smith in Oregon makes them right away if you can sent a sample, If different length just tell them. Been in my LSR engines since 1974 with no failures.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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I think all the replacements by Elgin and Melling are the long versions?
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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They have both, as shown on ebay. Different part numbers
57RancheroJim (10/27/2017)
I think all the replacements by Elgin and Melling are the long versions?
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By Rono - 8 Years Ago
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Another source for Y Block parts is Schumann's Sales and Service in Blue Grass IA. I bought some parts from him (including push rods) and he's a very knowledgeable guy. I have a 2009 catalog with a phone number of 563-381-2416.
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By Dave C - 8 Years Ago
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Smith Brothers at pushrods.net, also Manton Pushrods at mantonpushrods.com. Both can make custom pushrods to your specs if you are correcting a pushrod to rocker geometry.
Dave
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks Rono - I forgot about Schumann's. I called him today and ordered a set He was sure he had them in stock.
Rono (10/28/2017)
Another source for Y Block parts is Schumann's Sales and Service in Blue Grass IA. I bought some parts from him (including push rods) and he's a very knowledgeable guy. I have a 2009 catalog with a phone number of 563-381-2416.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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I went ahead and bought the Elgins, Didn't make 50 miles and one of the cups cracked and a chunk fell off. I had read in the past about this problem but figured by now they would have corrected it, NOPE! $125 down the drain, I trashed them and put the old solid ones back in..
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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You have to check everything. Even the best manufacturers have issues sometimes.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Were these Elgin PR-71S or PR-73S that broke? Not that it probably matters, just wondering. Am rebuilding the rocker assemblies and decided to replace the pushrods on GP, bought a set of PR-71S, Noticed the cup doesn't seem as deep as the OEM pushrod. Reading about the issues from years past I greased the adjuster ball on a new rocker arm to see if the fit was good, the contact patch between ball and socket looks good, but I dunno. Bummed about this.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Ted, these were the PR-73S and have a date on the box of 08-01-17. I looked at each one visually before I installed them. I have a feeling the radius in the cup is not right, I'll do a check on that this weekend. I'm just glad it broke on a short trip, this weekend I'll be doing a couple of hundred miles.
I saw your post on the truck forum about the springs, don't know a source for those..
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Yep, the original locater springs on the rocker shaft would "probably" be OK but a couple of them are worn thin. Haven't looked at them real close though.
I'd figured the defective pushrod issue went bye bye, that was quite a few years ago.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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I decided to go out and measure the cups. It looks like the cup is .350 and the ball is .360, that doesn't work.. I'm going to contact Elgin and see what they say.
The only reason I bought these was I have 2 Yblock engines now and only had one set of push rods, so I decided to put the new ones in this engine, good thing I did and ran the test run.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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How are you measuring the cup? ID micrometer? Elgin doesn't supply that information either, near as I can tell.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Just with inside caliber. Now I'm worried about the lifter end. The Elgin ball is .360 and the stock ones are .310. I don't have a loose lifter to see how it fits, and I sure don't want to ruin the lifters..
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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It's confusing to me (not difficult ha ha) because there are so many different pushrods available. Mummert's webpage indicates the the "long" pushrods are used for early and late cylinder heads, although the stock rods I have aren't as long.
The slight differences in length won't matter insofar as far as spring bind &c, retainer and valveguide clearance etc, so long as we're talking about stock springs and camshaft, and 1.43 rockers correct? I'm just a simple guy trying to get through the day.
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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A caliper will not provide an accurate inside measurement for something that small. It will indicate a slightly smaller dimension. It is best to check using something like dye or grease to observe the contact pattern. Usually, the cup will cover more than half of the ball. If you can see that less than half is covered, then the cup is probably to small.
.360" is about right for the ball. .310 is too small, probably incorrect pushrods.
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By Small block - 8 Years Ago
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Sorry to hear about your grief with the push rods! I have used the Elgin Pushrods before with out any problem. I guess all these guys make a bad product at times. My buddy has a 292 in a pickup with a set of Elgin Pushrods with 30,000miles on them!
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Gonna take one for the Team, installed all 16 of the Elgin pushrods today along with the new rocker arm assemblies. We'll see if they hold up. Is there a warranty on these things? If they break I want my money back.
Guess I better throw a couple OEM in the glove box just in case. Everything looks good. Replaced and shimmed 16 valve springs, cold lash &c, all that's left is reinstall plugs and fire it up and let it run in for a while. Did put a spot of Moly on all the rocker tips, rod cups and ends for good measure.
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By MoonShadow - 8 Years Ago
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There was a lot of talk about this problem some time back. As I remember it was discussed that the manufacturer had use cups for a Mopar application that are slightly smaller that the Y-Block. This would cause the cups to break out a section of the wall. Charlie did a lot of investigation into this and did find that testing the depth of the ball into the cup was eye opening. Seems like a good step to add to the process when changing push rods or rocker arms.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Looked at the old OE rods a little more carefully, not scientific tho chucked them in a drill and ran them on a rocker placed in a vise eyeballing them while spinning. Quit after checking about half of them - all bent or wobbly to some degree. Runout limit is only .005" or somesuch.
Two of them showed that at one time (not now) incorrect intake bolts had been installed. Great work by my engine "rebuilder". &@%#!! crooks.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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WOW! your engine builder doesn't seem to know much about Yblocks
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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MoonShadow (11/13/2017)
There was a lot of talk about this problem some time back. As I remember it was discussed that the manufacturer had use cups for a Mopar application that are slightly smaller that the Y-Block. This would cause the cups to break out a section of the wall. Charlie did a lot of investigation into this and did find that testing the depth of the ball into the cup was eye opening. Seems like a good step to add to the process when changing push rods or rocker arms. This maybe the problem, further investigation will be needed when I can get a break. I'm using the shorter rod with my G heads and 1.54 rockers. Maybe the longer ones did have an issue?
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By PF Arcand - 8 Years Ago
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Based on a recent "Random Thoughts" blurb by John Mummert in Y-Block Magazine, (issue #137, 2016) what may be happening here is a compatibilty problem, not necessarily bad Elgin or other stock spec pushrods. Original or stock replacement pushrods & some aftemarket adjusting screws both appear to have 3/8" adjusters. This is not actually the case. The ball & cup needs about .010 - .015" oiling clearance. Stock Ford adjuster balls are about .360" & the cup is about .375". Some aftermarket pushrods have a .390" cup & the adjuster ball end is .375".. If the aftermarket ball adjusters are used with original spec pushrods, there is no clearance for proper oiling, soon resulting in failure! Plus he says there are poor quality aftermarket adjuster screws out there also.. ..( Hopefully I've explained the problem correctly) Also note that he explains some other important miscues that can happen related to our favorite engine & related parts. This issue is worth ordering from the editor Bruce Young, just for this article alone..
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By ian57tbird - 8 Years Ago
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Not much of an engine builder full stop! Anyone that doesn't check to see if a bolt is bottoming or interfering with something shouldn't be building engines.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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PF Arcand (11/14/2017)
Based on a recent "Random Thoughts" blurb by John Mummert in Y-Block Magazine, (issue #137, 2016) what may be happening here is a compatibilty problem, not necessarily bad Elgin or other stock spec pushrods. Original or stock replacement pushrods & some aftemarket adjusting screws both appear to have 3/8" adjusters. This is not actually the case. The ball & cup needs about .010 - .015" oiling clearance. Stock Ford adjuster balls are about .360" & the cup is about .375". Some aftermarket pushrods have a .390" cup & the adjuster ball end is .375".. If the aftermarket ball adjusters are used with original spec pushrods, there is no clearance for proper oiling, soon resulting in failure! Plus he says there are poor quality aftermarket adjuster screws out there also.. ..( Hopefully I've explained the problem correctly) Also note that he explains some other important miscues that can happen related to our favorite engine & related parts. This issue is worth ordering from the editor Bruce Young, just for this article alone..
I am aware of that possible problem. I use OEM adjusters that are .360 and with the OEM pushrods they worked fine on the previous engine. I reused the same rockers and pushrods on my new engine and it ran fine for the first few hundred miles. I only bought the new pushrods because I now have 2 Yblock motors and only had one set of pushrods and I liked the idea of tubular vs solid. Good news is I reinstalled the OEM pushrods and between a long drive on Sat, a few short ones on Mon and Tues it's run perfectly for 400 miles. Other good news is I found another set of OEM and another set of unidentified in an unmarked box that I totally forgot I had. I'm at that age I shouldn't rely on memory :-)
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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ian57tbird (11/14/2017)
Not much of an engine builder full stop! Anyone that doesn't check to see if a bolt is bottoming or interfering with something shouldn't be building engines.
Yep, it was quite a few years ago, paid a lot of money (for me) at the time. I've had the pleasure of going through everything and spending both the money and the time making it right.
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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I didn't realize pushrods were so expensive now.
I got a set of custom Smith Brothers pushrods a couple years ago that might have been $120, with shipping and they make a much better pushrod, in my opinion.
The good thing about custom ordering is that you can measure the adjuster screw ball and original pushrod ball (or known to fit correctly replacement) and specify the pushrods for that. Then they fit, no matter what has been done to the engine - but you still need to check.
Smith Brothers are not strangers to Y-Blocks so it is possible they know the stock lengths. If not, maybe you can send one for reference. What I did to measure, since I don't have a 12" caliper, is use a combination square set at about 5 1/2" and measured that with a 6" caliper for the exact dimension. I then put an 8mm (.315") ball bearing in the cup of the pushrod, set those on the combination square and measured the length that the pushrod extends beyond the square. So the effective length is the length beyond + about 5.500" - .315". It's a tricky setup but with some practice, it is reasonably repeatable and much cheaper than a 12" caliper.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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I get sticker shock with almost anything I buy these days. An expensive lesson learned, I won't buy off the self pushrods if I ever need them again. I need to do a better job of labeling what I have. I will trash the pushrods and take the loss rather then find myself broken down miles from home. The Yblock is my daily driver and sees a lot of long distance trips. Long distance for me is usually about 300 miles round trip to visit the gran kids. I've done a few further then that with the last engine and plan on doing many more with this engine.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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I finally got the camera to work LOL.
Top is the one that broke
Middle is the OEM set I found in the unmarked box
Bottom set is unknown to me, I only remember taking them out of a Y years ago. Maybe some one will recognize them..
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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This afternoon I colored the cup with a Sharpie and spun an adjuster in it. You can clearly see that the ball only hits on the top edge of the cup and doesn't come close to the bottom. Elgin claims their prints say the cup is .370 but I can tell you the parts aren't..
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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What's interesting to me is that it appears that the PR-71S have the correct size cup, according to my not so scientific tests. They were manufactured this year as well. The only difference between the 71S and 73S pushrod (one would think) is supposed to be the length.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Good luck Ted, I hope yours are ok and work for you.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Yep, we're gonna find out. Is it standard for aftermarket suppliers to include no warranty on their product?
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Elgin won't deal with the warranty directly with me, they want you to go back through the seller..
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Hm, well that makes a certain amount of sense. I guess. Bought them through eBay, so that might work in my favor if there's an issue.
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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I don't think it is common for there to be no warranty. However, the warranty can be quite limited because of the nature of the items. There are so many ways that items like this can break or wear which have nothing to do with the craftsmanship of the item, like user error during installation, a defect in another item or incorrect installation of another item, etc.
In order to be justified in your warranty claim, you would need to show that there is a defect or problem with the craftsmanship, ideally before the item is ever installed so they cannot claim it is user error.
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks for posting this. I just bought a set from Shuman's so I decided to check mine out. SAME THING. No I've got to find someone else. Contact info for Smith Brothers? I had some stock push rods and checked the cups on those using the same method and they were ok.
57RancheroJim (11/14/2017)
This afternoon I colored the cup with a Sharpie and spun an adjuster in it. You can clearly see that the ball only hits on the top edge of the cup and doesn't come close to the bottom. Elgin claims their prints say the cup is .370 but I can tell you the parts aren't..
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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Smith Brothers: https://www.pushrods.net/
Looks like they are $8.20ea in their catalog, so $131.20 + shipping if I'm looking at the right item. Just email or call and tell them what you need. They're helpful.
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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Thanks Charlie
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Sorry to hear you had a similar problem. Maybe Shuman gets them from Elgin?
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By paul2748 - 8 Years Ago
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I called Smith Bros today. They have no clue what the "normal" push rods for a Y Block are supposed to be (no specs) so they have nothing to sell me unless I send them my stock ones and have them duplicate it in a tubular style. I fail to see how a company that specializes in push rods doesn't know what places like Elgin and Melling know. So, now what to do?
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By charliemccraney - 8 Years Ago
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Send them one or specify the effective length.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Noticed from the pics the #73 pushrods have the large ball on the lifter end, similar to stock. #71 don't have this.
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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Tedster (11/17/2017)
Noticed from the pics the #73 pushrods have the large ball on the lifter end, similar to stock. #71 don't have this. Ted, I'm a little confused, I don't see anything with a #71 or 73. All my OEM pushrods have the small ball. Are you saying yours has the larger ball? Can you post a picture of yours?
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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No, the PR-71S pushrods don't have a ball end, it's basically the same diameter as the rod itself, will try to post a pic later, need to double check lash anyway. That's what's kind of puzzling. PR-71S is listed for 54-56 Y Block V8 on eBay, those are what I purchased, as my thinking went Mummert's site lists "long" pushrods as correct except for '57 or somesuch. PR-73S are listed by Elgin as 56-64. Their pictures on the auction site are just stock pics so aren't really helpful. If I can find my sharpy we'll do the cup test too, but they sure seemed to fit fine, if a little low. I'd like to see a deeper cup just because that's what I'm used to.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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Here is PR-71S showing lifter end. The sharpie test seems to show a decent contact patch, the OEM rocker screw has a flat spot at the bottom, so it won't be 100%
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By 57RancheroJim - 8 Years Ago
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It is confusing. Your lifter ends don't look like any of mine but at least you have a good cup fit for the adjuster.
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By Tedster - 8 Years Ago
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The first pic is a screen shot closeup and is distorted for some reason on upload, not sure why that happens. They are round.
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By 2721955meteor - 8 Years Ago
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re lifters, i bought 4 lifters from eBay new for a 8n ford tractor engine.
. I have 4 new lifters for a 8n tractor engine,they look ident. to y block,except have a betr pocket for pushrods,as well a grove near the top for a clip so they stay in place for a cam change. the face angle and finish are identical to block ones. has any one out ther looked into these,and wher 1 may buy some. thanks
they
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By Y block Billy - 8 Years Ago
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I have a 1962 ford tractor and I do believe I read somewhere where they are Identical to Y block along with other components, connecting rods and pistons I think, not sure which size 272, 292 or maybe even 239 pistons???
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