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By Danny - 7 Years Ago
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I just had a very reputable repair shop do a complete drum brake overhaul on my 1956 Crown Victoria. Every component was replaced: brake line, brake hoses, new drums, new shoes, new 7 inch dual diaphragm booster, new dual master cylinder and all new drum brake hardware. Car stops okay however there still is what I consider an unsafe condition that they have tried and tried to correct to no avail.
The gap between the brake pedal and the accelerator is very narrow (maybe 0.5 inch) and when the brake pedal is depressed the first time, it goes approximately 1 inch past the accelerator pedal. After depressing the brake pedal the first time then pumping it again a second time, then the brake pedal will not pass the accelerator. When I was backing out of the garage, I attempted to stop the car. My foot pressed on the brake and when the brake pedal passed the accelerator, my foot also caught the accelerator and the car sped up instead of stopping. It scared the living hell out of me.
I realized what had happened and now know to be more careful when braking. I cannot let anyone else drive the car with this condition. The shop told me they tried every adjustment possible to correct the low brake issue. They are stumped.
Two short term things I am going to try is to change out the longer power brake pedal with the shorter non-power brake pedal and possibly putting some kind of spacer (block of wood?) under the brake pedal to prevent the pedal of going past the accelerator.
Does anyone have any ideas why the brake system is having this issue? Should I remove the brake booster completely and just have regular brakes and see if this is the issue?
Thanks,
Danny
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By lowrider - 7 Years Ago
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First thing that comes to mind for me is we're the brake shoes arc ground to the drum. If not you may be stopping with just a small portion of the brake shoes. Arc grinding removes high spots on the shoes so more of the shoe area contacts the drum. Very few shops have an arc grinder. It's just one of those things that isnt done much anymore. Back when I was still working if you had a pedal that was low you would drive the car and step on the brakes to "burn" the linings into the drum so they fit better. Usually putting miles on the car and using the brakes they would wear in giving you a better pedal feel. Don't know if that's your problem that's what just comes to mind.
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By mrmike - 7 Years Ago
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How much travel do you have on your brake pedal. Something doesn't seem right as I have installed my own aftermarket brake booster on my 54 Merc., and I have very little travel. I wouldn't think you would have to pump your brake & have the travel come up with that booster?? There is only so much travel the brake linkage can go & it isn't much
Anyhow, the aftermarket kit comes with a flat rod which goes thru the firewall to your existing brake pedal & there are 2 holes in that to make the correct fit for the travel. Neither would work on mine and I had to make my own bracket. My brakes work great with this setup, and I would assume your new booster kit is very similar if not the same. Mike
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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hterDanny (8/15/2017)
I just had a very reputable repair shop do a complete drum brake overhaul on my 1956 Crown Victoria. Every component was replaced: brake line, brake hoses, new drums, new shoes, new 7 inch dual diaphragm booster, new dual master cylinder and all new drum brake hardware. Car stops okay however there still is what I consider an unsafe condition that they have tried and tried to correct to no avail. The gap between the brake pedal and the accelerator is very narrow (maybe 0.5 inch) and when the brake pedal is depressed the first time, it goes approximately 1 inch past the accelerator pedal. After depressing the brake pedal the first time then pumping it again a second time, then the brake pedal will not pass the accelerator. When I was backing out of the garage, I attempted to stop the car. My foot pressed on the brake and when the brake pedal passed the accelerator, my foot also caught the accelerator and the car sped up instead of stopping. It scared the living hell out of me. I realized what had happened and now know to be more careful when braking. I cannot let anyone else drive the car with this condition. The shop told me they tried every adjustment possible to correct the low brake issue. They are stumped. Two short term things I am going to try is to change out the longer power brake pedal with the shorter non-power brake pedal and possibly putting some kind of spacer (block of wood?) under the brake pedal to prevent the pedal of going past the accelerator. Does anyone have any ideas why the brake system is having this issue? Should I remove the brake booster completely and just have regular brakes and see if this is the issue? Thanks, Danny
I have a Master/Booster from MBM Brake. What they call a "Corvette" Style Master and dual Chamber Booster. Pedal travel before the Brakes start to engage is about 1". No where near the level of the Gas Pedal. I suspect there is a problem on yours with the Master Cylinder. Where was it purchased? I would contact the Seller and tell them the problem You are having. The fact that you can pump the Brake Pedal and get a higher Brake level is something caused by the Master. Many 55/56 Fords have been converted to Power Assist and don't have problems like You are describing. As You mentioned I would NOT be driving this until the problem is corrected. I installed this same Setup on my Friends 55 with Drum Brakes and had no problems. Mine is Front Disc Brakes off a Granada.
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By charliemccraney - 7 Years Ago
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If the pushrod is too short, the pedal will be too low. But that doesn't account for having to pump the pedal.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Danny (8/15/2017)
I just had a very reputable repair shop do a complete drum brake overhaul on my 1956 Crown Victoria. Every component was replaced: brake line, brake hoses, new drums, new shoes, new 7 inch dual diaphragm booster, new dual master cylinder and all new drum brake hardware. Car stops okay however there still is what I consider an unsafe condition that they have tried and tried to correct to no avail. The gap between the brake pedal and the accelerator is very narrow (maybe 0.5 inch) and when the brake pedal is depressed the first time, it goes approximately 1 inch past the accelerator pedal. After depressing the brake pedal the first time then pumping it again a second time, then the brake pedal will not pass the accelerator. When I was backing out of the garage, I attempted to stop the car. My foot pressed on the brake and when the brake pedal passed the accelerator, my foot also caught the accelerator and the car sped up instead of stopping. It scared the living hell out of me. I realized what had happened and now know to be more careful when braking. I cannot let anyone else drive the car with this condition. The shop told me they tried every adjustment possible to correct the low brake issue. They are stumped. Two short term things I am going to try is to change out the longer power brake pedal with the shorter non-power brake pedal and possibly putting some kind of spacer (block of wood?) under the brake pedal to prevent the pedal of going past the accelerator. Does anyone have any ideas why the brake system is having this issue? Should I remove the brake booster completely and just have regular brakes and see if this is the issue? Thanks, Danny
I would assume the Shop bled the Master on the Bench prior to installing. That is recommended by MBM who supplied mine. Gets the Air out of the Master.
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By DryLakesRacer - 7 Years Ago
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This may not be the placed, but why are so many Ford guys obsessed with altering the brakes on their Fords. In 1956 Fords had a very good system which was stated in the reviews at that time. As I understand typical power brakes cannot be easily pumped and the fender power assist can if necessary. I have stock drums and a singe master and am very comfortable with the system. I adjusted them with every oil change which is normally once a year and believe that is the key. I have considered the fender vacuum assist but not as yet committed to it. Millions and millions of miles were driven safely with no power, single master cylinder, and drum brakes. To me a vacuum can on the firewall covers up a nice engine and heat from the exhaust header doesn't do it any favor... Sorry for the rant.
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By Rowen - 7 Years Ago
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For me it's a matter of horse power and modern speeds. "I" will have double the stock horsepower when complete.
As for "they", higher speeds and lighter cars =s shorter stoping distances for most. I want to be able to stop as quickly as I am able to go. I will be driving my car as often as possible and with all the crazy ass drivers on the road today.....well.....
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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DryLakesRacer (8/15/2017)
This may not be the placed, but why are so many Ford guys obsessed with altering the brakes on their Fords. In 1956 Fords had a very good system which was stated in the reviews at that time. As I understand typical power brakes cannot be easily pumped and the fender power assist can if necessary. I have stock drums and a singe master and am very comfortable with the system. I adjusted them with every oil change which is normally once a year and believe that is the key. I have considered the fender vacuum assist but not as yet committed to it. Millions and millions of miles were driven safely with no power, single master cylinder, and drum brakes. To me a vacuum can on the firewall covers up a nice engine and heat from the exhaust header doesn't do it any favor... Sorry for the rant.
I installed Disc Brakes and Dual Master with Booster. I would never go back to stock. Mines just a Driver but I was never comfortable with the way the Stock Brakes worked. Brakes in general have come Light Years since 1955-56.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 7 Years Ago
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Danny
A way to test if the brake booster is operating is to turn off the engine ( car parked ) and pump the brakes several times. Hold the brake pedal down while starting the car. Brake pedal should depress 1/2 inch. If you pass this test then the geometry of the brake pedal may be wrong. Did the car always have power brakes? Tell us more. Is it a kit?
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By Talkwrench - 7 Years Ago
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Sounds like your linings are undersize. Mine too when it came from the U.S. had all new gear, could even see the print on side of the linings. But someone had fitted standard linings when the drum was oversize. Give it a while to bed in and then lean on it if its not "really" pulling up this will be your problem.
and for now do as I do , brake with your left foot ; )
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By HazardTBird - 7 Years Ago
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You may also want to try the "BallPeen hammer" hit on the backing plates. On my Bird I had bleed and bleed and could not get good pedal; had replaced everything and completed work according to the manual. Would adjust till you get drag. As soon as I would drive, pedal would go to (or near) the floor and required pumping. Was about ready to give up after going thru cases of DOT 3 until I read an article in Thunder Enlightning (by CASCO). Basically, adjust brakes as before, but when you start to feel drag, swing just about as hard as you can (remembering these are 60 yr old cars) with a ballpeen hammer into the backing plate. If you have all new, or a lot of replaced parts, this hit will "center" the mechanism, and very likely you will have no drag. Continue adjusting till you feel drag, and repeat the process. When you still have drag after the ballpeen hit you there, back em off just a little and give it a go. Your shop may not have tried this.
HazardTBird
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By Lord Gaga - 7 Years Ago
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I agree with your rant. Why anyone would want to hang that huge monstrosity with a scrub master cylinder on their firewall is beyond me! It becomes the center of attention when looking under the hood! DryLakesRacer (8/15/2017)
This may not be the placed, but why are so many Ford guys obsessed with altering the brakes on their Fords. In 1956 Fords had a very good system which was stated in the reviews at that time. As I understand typical power brakes cannot be easily pumped and the fender power assist can if necessary. I have stock drums and a singe master and am very comfortable with the system. I adjusted them with every oil change which is normally once a year and believe that is the key. I have considered the fender vacuum assist but not as yet committed to it. Millions and millions of miles were driven safely with no power, single master cylinder, and drum brakes. To me a vacuum can on the firewall covers up a nice engine and heat from the exhaust header doesn't do it any favor... Sorry for the rant.
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By mrmike - 7 Years Ago
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 After rebuilding my 54 Merc including an all new Drum brake parts replacement and running it for a few years with hard stopping in todays traffic etc, I decided to install the aftermarket booster for help & help it did. I feel way safer today than those years I just had the manual brakes. I would recommend it to anyone ! I have been to car shows and my car has taken some best of shows including one with 600 cars & I have not had one comment about the brake booster.............. Mike
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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mrmike (8/16/2017)
After rebuilding my 54 Merc including an all new Drum brake parts replacement and running it for a few years with hard stopping in todays traffic etc, I decided to install the aftermarket booster for help & help it did. I feel way safer today than those years I just had the manual brakes. I would recommend it to anyone ! I have been to car shows and my car has taken some best of shows including one with 600 cars & I have not had one comment about the brake booster.............. Mike
Very nice Mike. Beautiful Car that's Fun and Safe to Drive. Glad You spoke up. If Brakes hadn't advanced over the last Hundred Years We would still have mechanical Brakes like the Model "T".s Anyway this Post is getting away from the Original Topic Posted.
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By Lou - 7 Years Ago
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I have to agree with Lord Gaga, and Dry Lakes Racer, most of the up grades are zero improvement on a stock or close to stock old car. Usually the guy who told you it's a upgrade is the same guy trying to sell you the upgrade. I think the last sentence in your post is the route you should follow.
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By oldcarmark - 7 Years Ago
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Danny (8/15/2017)
I just had a very reputable repair shop do a complete drum brake overhaul on my 1956 Crown Victoria. Every component was replaced: brake line, brake hoses, new drums, new shoes, new 7 inch dual diaphragm booster, new dual master cylinder and all new drum brake hardware. Car stops okay however there still is what I consider an unsafe condition that they have tried and tried to correct to no avail. The gap between the brake pedal and the accelerator is very narrow (maybe 0.5 inch) and when the brake pedal is depressed the first time, it goes approximately 1 inch past the accelerator pedal. After depressing the brake pedal the first time then pumping it again a second time, then the brake pedal will not pass the accelerator. When I was backing out of the garage, I attempted to stop the car. My foot pressed on the brake and when the brake pedal passed the accelerator, my foot also caught the accelerator and the car sped up instead of stopping. It scared the living hell out of me. I realized what had happened and now know to be more careful when braking. I cannot let anyone else drive the car with this condition. The shop told me they tried every adjustment possible to correct the low brake issue. They are stumped. Two short term things I am going to try is to change out the longer power brake pedal with the shorter non-power brake pedal and possibly putting some kind of spacer (block of wood?) under the brake pedal to prevent the pedal of going past the accelerator. Does anyone have any ideas why the brake system is having this issue? Should I remove the brake booster completely and just have regular brakes and see if this is the issue? Thanks, Danny
I really think your Problem is the Master Cylinder. If You are getting Pressure if You pump the Brakes it means the Fluid is bypassing the Seals inside the Master. If You are not leaking Fluid it has to be internal in the Master. Maybe it was assembled with the rubber sealing Cups backwards so they don't trap Fluid as the Piston moves forward as Brake is applied. Like anything else these Days you can end up with a Defective Item. Contact the Seller You purchased it from. These add-on Master/Boosters work very well once they are setup properly. You will still end up with the Brake Pedal about where it is now and nowhere near the Gas. Modern Cars have the Brake Pedal lower with Power Brakes because the Pedal is manufactured to end up at the same Height as the Gas for ease of Application.
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By DryLakesRacer - 7 Years Ago
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My rant was just the way I see it. The added vacuum cans and dual MC's on the firewall of our 50's cars are getting common place and like modern radios and A/C units.
If I had a 2017 Ford Mustang Cobra 4 cam under my hood (just dreamin' here gang) I probably would want to upgrade the brakes and handling a wee bit, but I don't.
In 1956 the speed limit in Cali was 55 and I drive 65 on the freeway when I'm on them and very cautiously thru Little Saigon when it's the only route. I am a very watchful when I drive because I've ridden Harleys for 50 years and had to ride like everyone out were out to get me.
Would I like mine to stop a little better? Yes I would; that's why I seriously looking at the kit from Concours Auto Parts in Carson City to put on vacuum assist. The units look nice on T-birds and aren't too bad on our larger Ford brothers. Same goes for Vintage Air; removing all that right side "stuff" for our heaters and hiding under the dash has its advantages I just but not yet for me... This is still one of the best sites on the net....
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