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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Hey guys,
Well some news, my 55 erupted with steam getting off the highway a couple days ago after a lot of driving on and off all evening. Thankfully I'd just got off the highway and there was a large shoulder to pull off onto just to the right of the exit, got her turned off and let the engine cool down.
Turns out after looking into it the next day, the original radiator cap was basically holding NO pressure in the system , seriously we rented a tester and the needle would go up and immediately back down again. Got it replaced with a new 13pound cap with safety lever. So now we're hoping that the radiator actually steamed out before the engine had any time to actually start overheating.
I've had her running and driving a few times since, a few miles or so and back. The engine starts and runs fine, we also tested pressure on the coolant system and it's fine. Other then any avice you guys might have, I just have one issue.
The oil light on the dashboard came on and stays on ever since that night. It wasn't on when we were driving prior to the steam-out.. so if it did come on it must have came on right when we pulled over.
I'm figuring it's a false reading, the engine runs and I've been told if there was no oil pressure it'd be clacking like hell under the valve covers.. which its not. Could the hot steam under the hood have damaged the oil sender? Or would the light come on if the wire from the sender had melted against the engine somewhere and maybe grounded to it? Just wondering if it's a common symptom after an overheat.
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By pintoplumber - 9 Years Ago
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If your radiator isn't new, I'd be afraid of a 13 lb cap. Maybe 7 lb.
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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Bad wiring can certainly cause problems. Check it.
Get a known to be good mechanical gauge to install temporarily to see what the pressure actually is.
Check the oil level, add if necessary.
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Charlie’s advice is spot on. The oil light staying on means do not run the engine except to verify if there is really oil pressure or not. This is easily performed by putting a pressure gauge on the engine. The oil light staying on can be as simple as a faulty oil sending unit or the wire going to that sending unit shorting out due to being off the unit or being frayed somewhere along its length.
While a hydraulic lifter engine will ‘clack’ almost immediately when the oil pressure falls off, it may take as much as 200 miles for a Y to do the same with its solid lifters. Once the Y starts ‘clacking’, there are some serious wear problems taking place.
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Can I just take off the valve covers and see if they're oiling?
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Hey, thanks for the detailed reply. Maybe I need to rephrase what I meant in my first post.
My working hypothesis is this: My radiator cap was crapped out and literally holding no pressure! This was tested after the fact. If the system wasn't pressurised that'd lower the boiling point allowing the coolant to boil and steam prematurely. And the bad cap would have allowed it to seep right out the overflow. Which I'll add, we'd stopped about four times that afternoon and after every stop the overflow was either dripping or letting out light steam.
The radiator WAS full when we left at the beginning of the day, by the next day after the steam out? We had to add 3 gallons to the radiator. So that bad cap had been letting the system drip or steam itself dry throughout the day you see.
So what I meant wasn't that the engine wasn't hot, but that because the system wasn't pressurized, when it did steam out,it probably was before the engine itself was overheated but rather because lack of pressure had lowered the boiling point in the radiator...
That makes sense right? : /
But you guys really wouldn't out a 13pound cap on the system? It seems to be what those cars take..
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By HoLun - 9 Years Ago
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if you have an old/original radiator and hoses or have the factory expansion tank, I would not put a 13lb cap on it.
if you have modernized the cooling system, fresh gaskets and hoses, then yes, it should be fine. I run an 3 row aluminum radiator, deleted the expansion tank and converted to a modern closed loop, i run a 16lb cap. and 195F thermostat
failed cap will certainly cause lost of fluid and overheating, the pressure is there to keep the boiling point of the coolant up, once it boils, it turns to steam and pressure will increase and the steam "blows" out of the system via the failed cap.
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By HoLun - 9 Years Ago
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Half-dude (7/22/2016)
The oil light on the dashboard came on and stays on ever since that night. It wasn't on when we were driving prior to the steam-out.. so if it did come on it must have came on right when we pulled over.
may have spun a bearing and blocking oiling passages when it overheated. if your heads are not clogged you can pull the cover and see if oil coming out of the overflow tube, but if it gunked up you can't reall tell with that method.
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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It has the original radiator, but the hoses, thermostat, and gaskets around the thermostat housing are all new.
I honestly don't know why my car seems to run hot. I put a new coolant pump in as well, and the only reason I was out driving a little yesterday is because I put coolant system flush in and I need to drive the car awhile to run the stuff through the system.
Should I be using straight distilled water as coolant instead of 50/50? Is that my problem?
Is there an easier way to check for a short in the sender wire outside of visually looking? I think the wire goes back being the engine so I may not be able to get a good look at it everywhere.
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By Daniel Jessup - 9 Years Ago
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Just my two cents, but I wouldn't drive it anywhere until you figured out your oil pressure issue. Follow Charlie's advice and put a mechanical gauge in place of your original electrical sender and see what you have. The safest way would be to pull the distributor and turn the oil pump drive rod with a ratchet or a drill (just make sure you tape off/secure your 1/4" socket really, really well). Turn/run the rod CounterClockWise and see if you have oil pressure.
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By HoLun - 9 Years Ago
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definitely figure out your oil pressure issue before going any further,
also never run straight water, not only will it rust out the engine and clog the radiator, it will also case premature failure of the water pump because coolant has lubricants for the pump.
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Don't worry, I'll look into the issue first thing tomorrow before any driving. I'm betting it's a melted and grounded sender wire, considering I didn't have it hung on the spark plug harness like it's supposed to be, I think it's outright sitting against the oil filter housing.
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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56Roger (7/23/2016)
You set out in the morning after filling the radiator to do some driving in your Ford. Why did it need filling in the first place?
/// And now your oil light is on. Two problems to fix, both serious for what is left of this engine's life. Engine temperature and oil pressure are two things that cannot be ignored.
I didn't need to fill it in the morning, I just check it like I do the oil before any drive, you know, common good practices. I didn't need to add any it was full.
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Well I'm taking suggestions, it's not like I don't want these problems fixed.
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Well, I worked on the 55 today.
It was just a wiring problem, when I was working around the throttle area awhile back it seems I had unknowingly caught the oil sender wire underneath it's own securing clip which bolts onto the top of the left head right behind the water temp sender. The wire had been squished between the bottom of the bolt and the head, it's no wonder it was grounded.
Running the engine now I have no oil light..
As always I'm taking suggestions on how to get this cooling system working better. I know about installing 6 bladed fans and smaller pullys. But these cars ran fine stock back in their day. I shouldn't be needing to modifying things to get an acceptable temperature. Like I mentioned I'm running flush in the system right now and if comes to it I'll take the radiator to get boiled out and cleaned but I'm trying to keep this engine as original as possible.
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By oldcarmark - 9 Years Ago
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I changed the Water Pump Pulley on mine to One which is 6 7/8 Diameter instead of the original 7 1/4 Diameter Pulley. Does anyone know of a smaller than 6 7/8 Diameter Pulley from another Application or Stamping # which will fit the Y-Block? I don't see One listed in the Ford Parts Catalog smaller than 6 7/8 as an original Application.
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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The bolt pattern is very common. A pulley from any other application, Ford, GM, Mopar, etc with the same pattern and the same or slightly deeper offset can be made to work very easily. That gives you loads of off the shelf options down to about 5.5" diameter.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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One thing to remember, almost all the block and head passages may have some rust or corrosion. I've had heads that took repeated tanking to get even close to clean. A lot of us fight cooling problems, hence all the info on pulleys, bypass restricters, better fans, etc. I'm not so sure these motors weren't marginal when new, depending on ambient temps, traffic, altitude, etc. I'm glad it seems to be coming out ok for you.
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Which is true, it didn't come on until then, or the conditions to make it come on happened over that night such as the hot block melting its way through the wire cover. Regardless the thing I corrected you on wasn't even related to that, you mis-read that I had to fill up my radiator that morning which was false.
Look I don't know where this attitude comes from, I'll just assume I'm getting the wrong inflection from you over text, but don't go thinking that I'm some irresponsible jerk who uses and abuses his cars until they die, then moves on to the next one. I love my car, I love all my cars, I may even care about them more then most people I know! I don't know what gave you the impression this is an issue I'm taking lightly but you're wrong. This issue has been on my mind basically all day every day since the issue happened, and if you want to know the truth. I was alarmed by the steam between stops, it worried me a lot! But I had a seasoned mechanic friend with me who didn't worry, so I didn't make a scene. Plus we were in the middle of nowhere, at a restaurant for a cruise night. What was I supposed to do?
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Well thanks, glad we can discuss it without an argument. I've been on the internet long enough to know how emotions can get misinterpreted through text. I know you're just another car lover, and it must be painful to think of a perfectly good Y-block being abused somewhere.
I honestly was alarmed by the steam, but I just kept being told that it wasn't a big deal. Plus we were stopping for at least an hour or so at a time. I was just hoping I could keep her below the red-line with the repeated stops.. evidently not.
The car is totally original, all I have are the factory dummy gauges which as you know have no numbers on them at all letting you know what temp is what on the thing. To add to that, every time I look up things about the gauges I'm told how notoriously inaccurate they are leading me to wonder if the gauge just reads on the high end which a lot of people said theirs does. I have a new aftermarket gauge cluster but it needs to be installed, I think that will be my next project. As for water, I could have asked for water, but then again I'm weary of putting tap-water in my coolant system. I guess in that case it still would have been better, but when we were at the restaurant I don't think the coolant was that low yet.
Some good news: I checked the rockers and the engine is oiling, and like I said the light was on because of wiring problems. I got a new 7 pound radiator cap and on another drive today going about 20 miles there and back. The temp guage stayed a bit lower, right around below the H. I have no idea what temp that means on that gauge, but it is lower then it was and when I got home there was no steam or dripping from the overflow and no gurgling or bubbling sounds of any kind. I'll be doing a full T-pipe water flush of the system soon here.. if that doesn't do anything especially after having been running cooling system cleaner in the system for a couple days now.. I don't know WHAT to try.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 9 Years Ago
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I think its true that most of our vehicles were heat resistant in their "as delivered" condition - but now 60 years have passed. the blocks and heads are rusty - and many radiators full of gunk and water deposits. The older "load-o-matic" distributors are tired and often will run the engines with retarded spark - a very common problem (pre 1957). There are "modern" parts that are not the equal of the originals too........... One fellow that visited here had the impeller nearly rusted off the water pump.
You replaced the thermostat? Well known difficulty here is the small port t-stat that doesn't flow as much water as an original. The outlet from the block is 2 inches for a reason. Cheapie manufacturers put a small poppet in a sheet metal disc - and you lose 25%-50% of circulation flow - even when it is wide open.
 This isn't the one you want.....this is a one inch port - and its relatively easy to find a 1-1/2 inch port.
Another idea that has worked well for others - dose the engine with white vinegar or a similar (made for the purpose) acidic cleaner. Try to get the easiest of the corrosion mineral deposit gunk to come free and be able to be flushed out. I'd try several doses of this before I gave up. Getting a good flush of the system is a worthwhile effort. Do this before you rework the radiator........
I took my radiator out and to a local expert - and living in the desert - there are some fellows here (Tucson) that can get them cleaned and properly soldered. You need to find a pro radiator shop (Ramone's here in Tucson is recommended for locals), When I mentioned using a lower pressure cap - they looked at me like I was crazy - pressure suppresses boiling, about 2.5º per psi. When the ambient temperature here can reach 120º (freeway in Phoenix) you need every edge. I run a 13 psi cap - no problemo when the parts are in good shape.
Properly mixed anti-freeze / water mixture suppresses boiling too.... chemistry can help you a lot if you let it. The 50/50 mix - plus a 13 psi cap makes boiling in my t-bird occur at 238º. That's an 18º margin on the Phoenix freeway - hard to pass up.
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By GREENBIRD56 - 9 Years Ago
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Sorry to disagree - but I do...... my Thunderbird - in good mechanical condition runs 100º-105º over ambient ( right down to the thermostat setting). On a very typical summer day here - 105º ambient - that's 210º. That was probably getting up near to lubrication trouble in 1956 - but not in today's oil formulation. If the coolant mixture is correct - and the pressure cap the same as OEM spec - I'd say the internal conditions are still physically within the OEM design pressure parameters. If there is circulation reduction (or gunk in the block or radiator) - different story.
What none of us wants is a "boil-over" where the amount of flowing coolant is being suddenly and drastically reduced. It might be HOT at 210ºF but at least the cooling system is still working on rejecting the heat and not losing its fluid capacity. If you need to stop driving and let the cooling system do its thing to drop temperature - you can do it.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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The other thing I"d add is to go buy an inexpensive infrared thermometer. I've got a couple of them, and mine have read within a degree of a really expensive Fluke. The won't take a beating, you have to take some care with them. But it will tell you the temp at the tstat housing, top tank, bottom of radiator. Let's you know where your in car gauge is really reading.
Typical examples at Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_sc_1_7?url=search-alias%3Dgarden&field-keywords=infrared+thermometer&sprefix=Infared%2Caps%2C262
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By Half-dude - 9 Years Ago
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Nice, I like the back and forth discussion. I have one thing to add.
I've got a reprint of the original service manual. In the part for Thermostats it lists two a normal and a hot setup. Normal opens at °180 and hot opens at °200. Now if °200 were too hot for those engines why would the book even list a thermostat that hot in the first place?
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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Roger,
One of the problems with our 'birds is getting the air out from under the hood. In a parade, many pop the hood open. I've done that stuck in traffic, and even from behind the windshield you can feel the heat hit you on a still day. Some headers make that worse, putting a supercharger or a/c unit makes it worse. But you can still control it if everything is up snuff. Hotter than you'd like, but inside my limits.
The high temp thermostat was probably for extreme cold. You really needed the heater at 20 below.
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