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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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I've been reading a bunch of posts about various topics related to removing and installing engines in early T-birds. I found one post where a kind gentleman asked a poster where he lived as he was willing to help if he lived nearby. I never even thought about that possibility. I will soon be doing an engine swap in Raleigh, NC if anyone nearby is willing to provide some assistance.
I have a 1956 Thunderbird and will be pulling the engine/tranny as a unit, separating the tranny and sending it out for some work/rebuild, moving components from the old engine to a newly remanufactured engine, marrying the repaired tranny to new engine and installing back into the car. I have an engine stand to put the new engine on, and a borrowed cherry picker hoist to work with. I am not a mechanic, so will be trying to follow a shop manual and researching on the internet to figure out how to do it. I have no experience, so hints and advice will be critical.
Thanks,
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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Zuburg. Unfortunately, I'm too far from you to offer help with your engine swap. My recollection is that after purchasing your 'Bird you learned that the previous owner had installed a 239 engine and the shift linkage on the automatic transmission brought the original application of the transmission into question.
Before taking the Fordomatic to a transmission shop, I'd recommend determining what year tranny you've got. Personally, I would not use a '54 Fordomatic. A unit out of a '55, '56, or '57 passenger car or 'Bird would suit me for road-ability purposes. While I would not be hung-up on originality, know that the Ford repair manual on the '55 Fordomatics is different from the one for the '56 and '57s. While the '55-'57 transmissions will interchange for installation purposes, I don't know what the differences are internally.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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Thanks for your suggestion. You are right about the 239 engine. I really never thought that the transmission might also be a 1954 Fordomatic, but it makes sense. I will try to have it identified when I pull it out of the car. I haven't really driven it much due to all the other problems with it, but I didn't really perceive any linkage problems. It seems to shift into all the gears fine, and it does go forward and backwards and shifts (although, it seems to shift slow, I let up on the gas and then it shifts into high gear when in Drive). I haven't really been looking for a complete different transmission. If I do, I wonder if I should look for a manual which is what originally came with the car? Or if I don't care about originality, maybe I should consider a later, more reliable automatic conversion like a C4?
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By paul2748 - 9 Years Ago
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I put a C4 i my 56 Bird and am very happy with it. Rear mount used the stock C4 mount. Make sure that it is one that came with a floor shift as the shift arm on the trans sticks up. On mine, the shift arm went both ways.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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I forgot to ask what is wrong with a 1954 Fordomatic in case that's what I have? Also, would the following C4 transmission I found on Ebay work?
bEAAOSwuTxV~yGF&vxp=mtr">bEAAOSwuTxV~yGF&vxp=mtr">http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCI-511238-STREET-RODDER-70-82-FORD-C4-TRANSMISSION-289-302-351W-351C-/191782036894?hash=item2ca719a59e:g bEAAOSwuTxV~yGF&vxp=mtr
How difficult is it to retrofit a C4 into a 56 bird? Can you use the old Fordomatic shifter, or do you have to use the shifter like used in 1965 Mustangs?
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By 30 coupe - 9 Years Ago
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flat-o-matic makes a kit to couple a C-4 to a Y-Block. It includes the bell housing and flywheel which you will need if you buy that trans off of e-bay. I do not know if they make a kit specifically for the T-Bird. you will also need a trans cooler for your car, if you do not have one in the radiator.
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By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago
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Another firm that has C-4 conversion parts is John Mummert in El Cajon Calif. He's in one of the links from this site..
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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Another couple of questions regarding removing the engine/fordomatic as a unit. The shop manual I have says to remove the converter air duct assembly on the transmission (I have an air-cooled fordomatic). Is that necessary? I haven't heard that mentioned in any posts. The book also states to remove the engine rear mount bolt, raise the the transmission, then remove the cross member that serves as the engine rear mount. I thought I read that the 1956 Thunderbird did not have a removable cross member? The shop manual covers regular 1956 Ford passenger cars as well, so maybe they were referring to non-Thunderbirds with that statement?
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By MoonShadow - 9 Years Ago
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The air duct is easily damaged when taking the transmission out. It would be safer and probably easier to remove it first. I'm pretty sure the T-Bird doesn't have a removable transmission mount so I believe your book is referring to a car. I don't have a bird but I thought you had to either remove the engine and transmission togather or at least move the engine forward to get the transmission out.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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The birds have a very short crossmember mounted right at the X of the X member. They unbolt, but mine was so crusted up you had to scrape it to find the bolts. There was a recent post here about raising the rear of the car to get a bit more room to lower the tailshaft. Also there was a discussion of adjustable lifting plates and where to attach them. Your dealing with quite a bit of weight, and a good reach over the front in a bird, so a larger, heavy duty cherry picker is a plus. I was lucky, I could borrow one that was used to pull motors from 1 ton vans and medium duty trucks.
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By Lou - 9 Years Ago
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I wouldn't pull the engine and trans together, that's a lot of weight for a engine hoist.
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By Vic Correnti - 9 Years Ago
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I have a 55 bird and it has a removable mount. My car is a straight stick and I pull the engine leaving the transmission in the car. I pull just the engine from the side of the car leaving the hood on the car. I don't like aligning hoods if I don't have to, they can be a pain. I have done this 4 or 5 times with no problems.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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Miker, you are right, I found the cross member and mine in crusted over like yours was. I hope I'll be able to scrape down to the bolts and eventually get them off.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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While the engine and trans are out, do yourself a favor and clean all that up. Be mindful of fumes and ventilation, self combustion of dirty rags, all the usual cautions they print on the can. If you can roll the car outside, pressure washing works well, too. But its a real mess to clean up, and worse if the oil police catch you.
If you're in the mood to touch up the paint, cheap house brand tinfoil from Walmart is one of the best masking things I've found. Works good on the brake and fuel lines, pretty much everything. Way easier than tape and paper.
Then put a PCV system on the new motor, if your not doing a concours restoration. A lot of that gunk is the 60 years of a road draft tube. Sorry to go off topic, but when you said it was gunked up like mine, it seemed appropriate.
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By ian57tbird - 9 Years Ago
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Use a plastic scraper to clean off all the gunk. It saves scratching what might be good original paint underneath. I like the idea of aluminium foil, never thought of that.
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By paul2748 - 9 Years Ago
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Only the 57's had a non-removal trans mount.. If your going to use the air vent again, I would remove it to make sure it is not damaged.
I would recommend that you get something like movers blankets to put over the fenders and the nose to protect them. Harbor Freight usually have some inexpensive ones.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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I think I"m making good progress on prepping the 56 Tbird to remove the engine/tranny. I have a couple of questions to help me get to the finish line.
1) There is a wire that comes out of a bundle of wires from the firewall (the other wires go to the coil and such) that is connected to some kind of connector on the lower side of the block on the drivers side. I'm guessing this is the oil pressure sending unit? How do you disconnect the wire from the oil sending unit or remove the oil sending unit? It looked flush to the block to me and the wire was just going into the unit? I think I should just cut the wire at the sending unit and plan on putting in a new sending unit and wire on the new engine?
2) There is a metal tube that goes from the intake manifold to the underside of the front top portion of the teapot carb. The fitting on the intake looks like a 90 degree elbow but the fitting from the tube to the elbow is strange looking to me (see picture above), it doesn't have a nut so I can't see how to remove the tube from the intake. Once I can detach from the intake, I can remove the carb.
3) I couldn't tell how to remove the converter air duct assembly, but it looked to me like it would not be in the way, unless it hangs down too low? It doesn't look too low, or stick out to the side much. If there are just a few bolts I need to remove, I'll try to remove it. Is there anything I need to know to remove it?
4) The last couple of things I'll need to do that may be a challenge is disconnecting the shift control linkage at the transmission (not sure how much needs to be disconnected yet) and the speedometer cable. The book says to plug the transmission with an extension housing cap. Is this necessary? Is there something else I can plug it with?
Last, I have to remove the engine mounts, cross member, lower the front end and remove the radiator. Almost there. Hope to pull the engine on Saturday. I hope there's not something still attached somewhere that was supposed to be disconnected :-).
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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zuburg (2/23/2016)
1) There is a wire that comes out of a bundle of wires from the firewall (the other wires go to the coil and such) that is connected to some kind of connector on the lower side of the block on the drivers side. I'm guessing this is the oil pressure sending unit? How do you disconnect the wire from the oil sending unit or remove the oil sending unit? It looked flush to the block to me and the wire was just going into the unit? I think I should just cut the wire at the sending unit and plan on putting in a new sending unit and wire on the new engine?
2) There is a metal tube that goes from the intake manifold to the underside of the front top portion of the teapot carb. The fitting on the intake looks like a 90 degree elbow but the fitting from the tube to the elbow is strange looking to me (see picture above), it doesn't have a nut so I can't see how to remove the tube from the intake. Once I can detach from the intake, I can remove the carb.
(1) That wire does sound like it’s going to the oil pressure switch. The wire connector to that switch simply slides off the switch in a sideways manner to remove it.
(2) The air inlet for the automatic choke ‘heat tube’ should slide out of the 90° fitting that goes into the side of the intake manifold. It would be prudent to put some kind of penetrant on that connection before working with it to minimize breaking or twisting of either the line or the fitting.
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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I got a new catalog from Concours parts today. Their diagram of the Fordo shows the driver side (looks like the rear facing discharge scoop) as detachable. Bolts or screws on the flange. Not great detail, but the best I can do.
On the shifter rod, you might away just removing it on the trans side, and tying it up. If you can get to the shifter end, pull it. You really don't want to get something hung up and damage the shifter. Been many years since I pulled a Fordo in a bird, I just don't remember.
Don't get under there with the motor/trans half out. It's a lot of weight, and if something get hung up, don't use force. You never know just which way it will go when it comes loose. I think of the dumb things I did as a kid (pulled my first engine/Fordo/bird in 1967), and I'm surprised I've still got both hands and all my fingers. Fortunately, I had a Dad who'd pulled a lot of engines.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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I got all six bolts out of the cross member, but I can't seem to move it. I hit it pretty hard with a hammer and it didn't budge. I can't believe how much time I spent getting those six bolts out. I was able to disconnect the speedometer cable just above the cross member. Man was that a tight spot with the cross member still there. If I could have removed the cross member, it would have been easy to get to. I hope I can pull the engine and tranny with the cross member still there.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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The Fordomatic may not be from a Thunderbird, I'll find out when I get it out of the car and can ID it from the plate. Mine only has one rear facing duct and it is on the passenger side. It looks to me like it should not have any problem pulling the engine/tranny with the air duct still attached. I will include a couple of pictures to show what it looks like. 
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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I might be missing something here. The small crossmember bolts at the front of the X member, and the trans mount bolts to it, and then the trans. With all the bolts out, you should be able to smack it forward, and let it fall out. But at that point the trans will fall down on the top of the X member. Given age and gunk, even with the bolts all out, it might stick. Put a bottle jack under the trans, take the weight off, and use a block to smack it forward.
If that little crossmember isn't out, or it's stuck, or the trans is stuck to it, that motor isn't coming out without a fight. You don't want to fight it with the motor on the hoist. And you need the clearance at the X member to let the tailshaft drop and get the angle right to start to lift the whole works.
I don't mean to sound negative, but I also want you to get it out easy and be safe.
I can't speak to the air duct, it's been too many years. But I'm pretty sure the air cooled 55 had an "intake and exhaust" on the bell. Might have been a scoop, or just an opening. My memory said both, but the catalog only showed one.
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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Well, thanks to many of you, I now have the old Y-block and Fordomatic out of the 56 Tbird. I'll show a couple of pictures. My latest question is trying to identify the Fordomatic. I've checked many of the bits of information from the forums such as Charlie's Tranny and Cici's Garage and other links, but I'm still not sure where mine falls. I now have both a casting number from the housing and the information off the oval tag on the side of the transmission. Can anyone identify this tranny with the following information?
Stamp on Housing: PMB - 7976 - A
Information on oval tag: PAB - 7003 - C2 on the left side of the oval, and 50 - 44072 on the right side of the oval
thanks,  
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By Pete 55Tbird - 9 Years Ago
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Ohttps://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/TransID.phpK. Pete
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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Ah, I was looking for a PMB - A, but Gil only listed the ones for Thunderbirds. I'll bet the one I have didn't originally come on a Thunderbird but either fit, or was made to fit. Maybe someone else can help determine what it originally came from? I'm guessing a 1954 Ford passenger car.
thanks,
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By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago
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Zuburg. I've looked . . . '49-'59 Ford Text and a Hollander '54-66 Interchange . . . I can't get down to a service I.D. prefix of PAB in Ford, Mercury, or Ford truck! Yeah. I'm scratching my head! 
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By 57RancheroJim - 9 Years Ago
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The only thing close I could find with a -C2 was
PAH 7003-C2 TRUCK
PAP 7003-C2 TAXI
PAR 7003-C2 56 FORD
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By Pete 55Tbird - 9 Years Ago
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I can not ID your FOM but the 55/57 Tbird used a MEDIUM CASE 10 1/4 inch long and the 51/59 Ford used a SMALL CASE 9 7/8 inch long. Also the pan and pan gasket are different on them. Pete
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By zuburg - 9 Years Ago
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Darn, I thought once I could find the numbers and plate information, I would find out what I actually have. I assume that if this bolts to a 239 it will also bolt up to a 292? I guess I should just go forward with my plan to rebuild this transmission and mate it up to my new 292 long block I have coming and hope for the best.
I don't have the sheet metal duct cover on the driver's side of this transmission. Is this necessary or advisable for the transmission? If so, any idea where I can find one?
thanks,
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By miker - 9 Years Ago
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Zuburg, looking at Hoosiers post over on the ford barn, and assuming when you and he say "housing" you mean the tailshaft, and that Pete's comment is correct, expand you're search. Could very well be someone changed the tailshaft from the original bird trans to put an otherwise good but earlier Fordo in it. I have no idea what else this would entail, but back in those days any trans shop would know what to switch to salvage something. My bird has a truck Dana 44 in it, no doubt a junkyard solution to replace a bad rear axle. Old cars, who knows.
Going back to cleaning things up, I never thought of a cheap HF tarp. A company called Uline sells a variety of oil absorbent items. We used to use them on constructions site, and they were available at most boatyards. Might be able to lay the tarp, put the tube type barrier around, and contain the mess. Want you do when you roll it all up is up to you.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 9 Years Ago
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I just checked a FOM in the back of my garage. . The tag is PAR 7003 F2. Above this cast into the case is PAH 7006 D. To the right on the oval is stamped 56144
Measure your case DO NOT INCLUDE the 1/8 inch plate between the case and the tailshaft housing. Post what you measure. Pete
PS I believe I bought this from a man who told me it was from a 1955 pickup. The bell housing was from a truck.
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By petew - 9 Years Ago
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Zuburg, I sent you a pm regarding the Fordomatic I just removed from my 55 Tbird . It is the proper transmission for the car and has been replaced by a T-5 5 speed manual. I live about 45 minutes from you in Mebane so feel free to come have a look , measure or whatever you like.
Pete
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