1550 HP Y-Block - streetable horsepower

1550 HP Y-Block - streetable horsepower

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By Ted - 9 Years Ago

Here’s a total of 1550 Y-Block streetable horsepower. These all went to the Rolling Bones Group in New York.

By Glen Henderson - 9 Years Ago

Man, you have been busy this winter Ted! That is so cool four more Y Blocks back on the road.

By Daniel Jessup - 9 Years Ago

Are they all running Mummert Aluminum Heads? It looks like 3 of them are

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

Daniel. You’re right in that three of those engines have aluminum heads.

Clockwise starting with the right hand black engine.
323 cubic inch – alum heads, Mummert intake – 420HP
317 cubic inch – alum heads, Blue Thunder Version 3 intake – 393HP
317 cubic inch – alum heads, Blue Thunder Version 2 intake – 389 HP
331 cubic inch – iron ported G heads, Edel FM255 dual quad – 347+ HP

All these engines have different camshafts and the two 317 engines get there by way of different bore and stroke combinations. Different carburetors also on all engines so it’s quite a variety but all are designed to work on pump gasoline. There were no all out race engines in this group.

By yalincoln - 9 Years Ago

hi ted, can you give me the spec. on the 331 cu. in. engine, thanks, wayne.

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

yalincoln (2/15/2015)

hi ted, can you give me the spec. on the 331 cu. in. engine, thanks, wayne.

Wayne. The 331 engine got there by way of a 3.820” bore and a 312 crankshaft offset ground to a 3.605” stroke. The camshaft is a 232/238 @ 0.050” grind on 108° lobe centers with 0.455” lift using the supplied 1.43:1 factory rockers. The aluminum headed engines all used the Harland Sharp 1.6:1 roller rockers.

By jrw429 - 9 Years Ago

Would it be a breach of etiquette to ask about cost to get something like this?

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

jrw429 (2/16/2015)

Would it be a breach of etiquette to ask about cost to get something like this?

While it’s not necessarily a breach of etiquette to discuss pricing, pricing does vary from shop to shop simply for a variety of reasons. For that reason, I'll not post any exact dollar figures. Machine shop work pricing tends to be regional but I always recommend getting all machine work performed close to home when at all possible.

Due to each engine build being different, pricing will also be different. For that reason, it’s difficult to price an engine without knowing exactly what parts are being supplied and/or requested and what level of buildup is to be performed. While pricing tends to be regional, much of it still depends upon the parts being supplied by the customer with the core engine being an important part. The quality of the core parts such as blocks and crankshafts suitable for a rebuild, big valve cylinder heads, and four barrel intakes will drive some of the core parts prices higher. Keep in mind that on my end, there’s no such thing as a re-ring and re-bearing engine rebuild which would be the extreme lowend of the engine rebuild market. Even engines with marginal wear still require some extensive work and parts changing.

Here’s a list of items you can use when making local machine shop inquiries regarding pricing. If shipping an engine to and from a shop, that’s simply another expense that must be considered.

For the block: vatting, boring/honing the cylinders, cam tunnel alignment issues being corrected, lifter bores being honed, align honing the mains, plugging the steam holes, resurfacing the decks, grinding the crankshaft, main/rod/cam bearings, gaskets, rings, pistons, new rod bolts and wrist pin bushings, reconditioning the connecting rods, oil pump, new camshaft and lifters, pushrods, and a timing set.

For the heads: vatting, checking for cracks, replacement valve guides, valves, installing hardened seats for unleaded fuel, spring, retainers, valve locks, valve seals, and resurfacing the deck surface.

And then there are the options: aluminum heads, custom pistons and specialized ring packages, roller rocker arms, distributors, aluminum timing covers, aluminum valley covers, aluminum intakes whether they are single four barrel or multi-carb and of course, carburetors.

Then there are the rest of the parts: a core block with crankshaft and rods, core cylinder heads, a usable and correct oil pan for the intended application, harmonic damper, timing cover, water pump, fuel pump, intake manifold, carburetor, distributor, wires, spark plugs, oil, and filter to name just a few.

On my end I prefer all engines to be run in and tested so that any potential problems can be isolated and fixed before the engine leaves the shop. By breaking in the engine at the shop, errors made by the installer are essentially eliminated which makes for fewer returns and happier customers. Because I am running the engines in on a dyno, then all the parts to get the engine up and running must be here. That includes carburetor, distributor, water pump, spark plugs, wires, oil, oil filter, etc. This makes the initial cost for the engine leaving the shop more expensive but it’s simply money that’s being spent at the shop end rather than after the fact on the installer’s end just prior to putting the engine back into the car.

This was the short version.

By Y block Billy - 9 Years Ago

You forgot to mention Balancing Ted, your specialty!

By aussiebill - 9 Years Ago

Ted, i thought the 317 engs had impressive figures, how did you get those cubes and also i,ve not heard of the blue thunder upgrades? thank you, regards bill.

By Joe-JDC - 9 Years Ago

Blue Thunder series 3 does not have a slot in the plenum divider. I just flowed one of the new intake manifolds, and it averaged 283cfm as cast and shipped. Four of the ports flowed identical numbers, which is very balanced as dual plane intake manifolds go. On the older BT series 2 intakes with the slot, there was some turbulence on two ports when flowing with an open spacer, and if you smoothed/cartridge rolled the divider, the flow picked up a few cfm. The average flow is very close as cast between the BT 2 and BT 3. (Flowed on SF-600 flow bench) Joe-JDC.

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

Y block Billy (2/17/2015)

You forgot to mention Balancing Ted, your specialty!

Bill. Good catch on the balancing. I’m sure that’s not the only thing I missed but that one should have been more obvious than most. Balancing, degreeing in the camshaft, and center cam journal oiling modifications are performed on all Y builds at this shop.

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

aussiebill (2/17/2015)

Ted, I thought the 317 engs had impressive figures, how did you get those cubes and also I've not heard of the Blue Thunder upgrades? Thank You, regards Bill.

Bill. The 393HP 317 engine got there by way of a 3.810” bore and a 3.480” stroke. It has 292 sized mains with 2.000” journals. A 292 crankshaft was used in this instance for the offset grinding. The 389HP 317 engine got there by way of a 3.830” bore and uses a stock 312 crankshaft (3.44” stroke) that was turned 010X010. The 312 crankshaft with its larger journal sizes takes a bit larger camshaft to make it competitive with the other 317 engine which has smaller journal sizes. Bearing speed is the key to some 'free' horsepower if you can capitalize on using the smaller journal sizes.

Joe has done a good job in describing the flow differences at the plenum divider between the version (series) 2 and version 3 Blue Thunder intakes. I’ll add that while the version 2 Blue Thunder intake has been around for several years now, the version 3 intake has only been out for about 3 months. Visible differences on the version 3 intake are no slot in the plenum divider and some specific casting changes at the rear so that the MSD 8383 billet distributor will clear without modifications.

By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago

In the list of machine shop operations that Ted identified for doing a comprehensive performance y-block Ford engine ‘build’… he included three operations that I'm unfamiliar with HOW to accomplish or best approach. Additional information would be appreciated.

1) 'cam tunnel alignment issues being corrected'? HOW is this done? Is an 'oversize' cam bearing available that can be line honed to size? If such a machining operation is undertaken, what camshaft bearing clearance is recommended for a y-block?
2) 'lifter bores being honed'? What lifter to bore clearance is recommended for a y-block? Are the existing y-block lifter bores being reamed oversize for the installation of a bronze bushing?
3) 'installing hardened seats for unleaded fuel'? Frequent practice seems to be installing hardened exhaust seats only… unless the intake seats otherwise need replacement due to other seat wear problems. In installing stainless intake and exhaust valves, is there purpose to installing hardened seats for both the intake and exhaust valves?

THANKS for the help!

By ian57tbird - 9 Years Ago

A good engine rebuild shop should test how freely the cam turns in the block after new bearings are installed. Often they need some skimming with a bearing scraper.

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

NoShortcuts (2/18/2015)

1) 'cam tunnel alignment issues being corrected'? HOW is this done? Is an 'oversize' cam bearing available that can be line honed to size? If such a machining operation is undertaken, what camshaft bearing clearance is recommended for a y-block?
2) 'lifter bores being honed'? What lifter to bore clearance is recommended for a y-block? Are the existing y-block lifter bores being reamed oversize for the installation of a bronze bushing?
3) 'installing hardened seats for unleaded fuel'? Frequent practice seems to be installing hardened exhaust seats only… unless the intake seats otherwise need replacement due to other seat wear problems. In installing stainless intake and exhaust valves, is there purpose to installing hardened seats for both the intake and exhaust valves?

Charlie.

Some of the 312 blocks have cam tunnel bore issues bad enough that it warrants boring the cam tunnels to a 1.813” size and installing a custom cam bearing in which to correct. The initial check is performed with a solid bar that is machined slightly undersize to the original cam bore diameter and is inserted from each end of the block to determine the directions in which the bore alignment has been compromised. This is a much better fix rather than having to ‘carve’ on the installed cam bearings in which to get the camshaft into the block.

Blocks that have been out in the weather or exposed to moisture requires the lifter bores to be ‘reconditioned’. Honing is a simple fix for these and targeting for a 0.0015”-0.0017” lifter to bore clearance suffices for most. To date, I have not had to go so far as do a brass bushing lifter bore repair for the Y engines. Brass bushing repairs for the lifter bores in BBC engines is pretty common fare though.

Hardened seats are typically installed only on the exhaust side but many heads have been reground or worn to the point that installing new intake seats is necessary also. It's important that the valves are not sitting in a 'sunk in' position in the heads.

By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago

THANKS for your reply to my questions, Ted. Appreciated!
Regards,

By PF Arcand - 9 Years Ago

A thought on the Blue Thunder Plenum slot. As Ted's & Joe JDC's testing has confirmed, it's not a desirable feature of the intake, unless the user is going to install an older 3 barrel style carb. So, it's been my experience that aluminum castings can be welded successfully, so why not cut a plate & weld it in with a suitable alloy & eliminate the slot?

By Joe-JDC - 9 Years Ago

I agree, a piece of aluminum welded into place, and blended, rolled over to get rid of sharp edges, and it will be a better intake. I just completed porting my personal BT-3 intake manifold today, and it picked up 40 cfm average. Joe-JDC

By NoShortcuts - 9 Years Ago

Ted (2/19/2015)

NoShortcuts (2/18/2015)

Some of the 312 blocks have cam tunnel bore issues bad enough that it warrants boring the cam tunnels to a 1.813” size and installing a custom cam bearing in which to correct. The initial check is performed with a solid bar that is machined slightly undersize to the original cam bore diameter and is inserted from each end of the block to determine the directions in which the bore alignment has been compromised. This is a much better fix rather than having to ‘carve’ on the installed cam bearings in which to get the camshaft into the block.

1) Ted mentioned that SOME 312 blocks are found to have cam tunnel bore alignment inaccuracy. Since numerous FoMoCo block casting series (five?) from '56 through '60 were used for either 292 or 312 engine production, is there any speculation as to WHY the cam tunnel bore issue is found in 312 produced blocks and not 292 blocks?

Might the 312 main bearing bores and and cam bearing bores been machined on a particular production machine?
OR
Might the misalignment inaccuracy be tied to block twist (over time) caused by reduced engine block structural integrity brought on by the 312 engine bore being .050 larger than the 292 engine bore?

2) Have the cam tunnel bore issues been found more frequently on some 312 y-block casting series from '56 to '60 than others?

By Ted - 9 Years Ago

NoShortcuts (2/20/2015)

Charlie.
For a while the cam tunnel problem looked to be more prominent in the ECZ blocks but then it was also noted in the earlier 312 blocks. Some of the cam tunnel issues arise from the cam tunnel bores not being aligned with each other while other issues arise from the cam bores themselves simply no longer being true in regards to roundness. I suspect the problem stems from the larger main journal sizes on the 312 which takes away from the internal rigidity of the block itself around the main and cam area. I recently performed a build up on a C2AE-C 312 block and in that case the cam tunnels were perfect. That particular block has the reinforced main webbing which may be a key component in allowing the cam tunnels to remain straight and true when the main bore sizing is increased.