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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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I am thinking about converting an old reverse rotation marine Interceptor engine to CCR and powering a front engine dragster with it. Has anybody on here ever heard of using the Borg Warner marine Velvet drive transmission for automotive use??? I read somewhere that that was basically like the old nostalgia in and out boxes from the 50s and 60s. I know I would have to couple it with a clutch and am also open to ideas for a cost efficient clutch system. Not too much horsepower, naturally aspirated and a budget build. Just wanna drive my own hand fabbed F.E.D. at the local 1/8 mile track.
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By Hollow Head - 9 Years Ago
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Don't know how much torque those Borg Warners can stand? It's a bit different task to go off from the line than go off on water... Short C4 from some Bronco would be easier to do. Ask Tim McMasters about his FED with C4.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Cool! Thank you. I've seen that on YouTube.
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By pegleg - 9 Years Ago
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Hoosier Hurricane and I both run the FMX version in our Fcodes withiut much trouble. He's run low 11's at 119 mph in a 3800 lb car with it. Mine's currently running low 14's at 100. No problems.
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By Hollow Head - 9 Years Ago
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http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/0911rc-ford-automatic-transmission/
FMX is heavy and long  ! But as stated, can do it's job...
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Mine will be making around 350-400hp in a F.E.D. weighing somewhere in the 1500 pound neighborhood. Looking at the specs on the unit from BW, I think I may try it. If I blow it, oh well. Seems like it would hold up just looking at the way it's constructed compared to modern automatic transmissions. Same type of components, just no converter or clutch. It has a pressure regulator internally. I think this could be modified to suit needs at idle. Put 'er in forward and smack it!...lol!
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By The Master Cylinder - 9 Years Ago
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babor (1/4/2015)
Looking at the specs on the unit from BW, I think I may try it. If I blow it, oh well.
Yeah, It's sittin' between your legs... 
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By Hollow Head - 9 Years Ago
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Jep, just make couple of kids before even trying... After that it doesn''t hurt...! At least consider some kind of explosion shields . And, if attendin any kind of real competion, it's a must. Oh, rules...
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By LordMrFord - 9 Years Ago
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350 - 400 hp is quite lot from budget build.
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By Larry Short - 9 Years Ago
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This is how my FED rear end has a 1/4" strap over the gear. I'm thinking of adding plates on each side of main strap. This is a 50's Lincoln rear I'm told.
Larry Short
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By Larry Short - 9 Years Ago
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Have you build your F.E.D. frame yet or do you have a old one? If so any photos?
Larry Short
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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I may be anticipating a little much from the little engine. I have a great cylinder head guy though. That's where it all happens. I am building his transmission and he will do my heads in return. I would DEFINITELY be running a hell of a scattershield! This is all just a puppy as far as plans go thus far. I would love to drive e F.E.D. though. We have a local 1/8 mile strip that just opened last year and I wouldn't have any issues with rules. I would just be doing it for fun, no events in my future. Even if it only makes 275-300hp or so, in a 1500 pound dragster it'd be a blast and probably wouldn't be very harsh on the transmission.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Will be fabricating my own chassis. I have done quite a bit of welding and fab work and have access to a dealership garage and alignment rack to set it up.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Larry, that is cool! Any more pics???
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By Larry Short - 9 Years Ago
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This is what it looked like when I got it a few years ago. It's a 50s Lynwood Dragster. It has come a long way. Has a Hilborn injected Y-Block installed in it with Vertex Mag and distributor pump drive. I'm using a In & Out box trans with no reverse. Tying to keep it like it was build in the 50s. Will be a push start although I've installed a mini starter that will plug in to a external battery so we can start it in the pits to tune. I'll post some updated photos as soon as I have them. I have a water pump on the motor now and thinking about installing a small heater core hid along side of the block just to move some water. I like to take my cars to local cruises, unload a few blocks away and drive them in. Freaks people out. Anyone with any ideas about water pump, no water pump let me know your thoughts. Was thinking about a timing cover from a Marine motor and no water pump ?
Larry Short
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By Ted - 9 Years Ago
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Larry Short (1/8/2015)
......... Anyone with any ideas about water pump, no water pump let me know your thoughts. Was thinking about a timing cover from a Marine motor and no water pump ?
I use the marine cover on my roadster with a remote mounted electric water pump.
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By Larry Short - 9 Years Ago
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Thanks Ted,
I was thinking about that too but there is no battery in the dragster and no place to hide one. Don't know if a small power tool battery would run the pump, they don't take up much room and I could hide it. We used them on our Pro Stock Bike to run the vac pump. I would like to find a marine cover so I could have the option to try it. I think it would look better than having a water pump. Planing on having 56 and dragster at Columbus this year.
Larry Short
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By charliemccraney - 9 Years Ago
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There are really small, light and powerful lithium batteries for motorycle/atv use. I'm sure you could stuff one of those somewhere if needed.
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By Larry Short - 9 Years Ago
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That's what I was thinking to. Or I 'm trying to look for a small belt driven pump that I could run off the crank pulley. I'm not up on the marine front cover but it look like something could be (or was) driven off the cam in the cover ? If that's right maybe I could take the electric motor off the pump and drive it from the cam ?
Larry Short
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Electric pump would be my idea. Are you running it on gas or alcohol? If alky, you can get away with filling the block because they take sooooooo long to warm up. My engine is a marine engine and I will be running gasoline so I am going to need to pump water. It has the cool old nostalgic timing cover you speak of. Awesome rail!
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By Larry Short - 9 Years Ago
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I'm running gas, I was thinking about running Alky but all my other cars use Racing Fuel and it's a lot easier to have one fuel. The block is filled part way up as are all my engines. I've never had a heating problem with any of them even with limited street use. Even though the engine is to race spec. the dragster is more for show and a few passes down the 1/4 mile.
Larry Short
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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I talked to my machinist last night and told him what I was building. He said that 1 hp per 1 cubic inch should be easily attained. I afterward did some math and figured out that in a 1500 pound rail the hp/weight ration is the same as our old 56 Bel-Air that ran low 10s on gas with no electronics or tricks. This is PLENTY fast for me. Now I just have to figure out a few things. I am still in the air about whether to build a rail or an altered. Also trying to figure out what would be a cost effective and safe front axle, but that is another thread...
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By Hollow Head - 9 Years Ago
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Trust me, 292 or even 312 hp don't bring you low tens at quarter mile. Our altered weights about 2100 pounds with driver and his gear and it went 11.87 at 1/4 mile without turbos. Ok, it has under 9 figure compression, but still...
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Not concerned as much with the speed of it as much as just having fun with it. This one is a 9:1 compression 215hp Interceptor marine engine that will have some nice head work and an Isky 290/108/.508" cam. Not sure on the trans yet. Still thinking about the Borg Warner marine transmission, but I have a guy at work that has a 292 truck engine and trans. 4 speed toploader. I am thinking the in and out box with no clutch would be a bad idea...lol. May grab the toploader and modify it to be a 2 speed. Don't know yet. The Velvet Drive in and out box has a hydraulic shifting mechanism and the planetary is always on, so it may launch great though. If it blew anything I think it would be the clutches eventually. This thing will likely see more car shows and make noise than it will see of track duty in all reality.
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By RB - 9 Years Ago
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Do you know the ratios of the velvet drive? Does it have a fluid coupling ? Without a torque converter that thing will be impossible to launch without some super deep gearing
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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1:1 ratio. I was going to run about a 514 gear with about a 28"x10" rear tire. I figured it'd blow em off for the first 20' or so...lol. Do you think it would work???
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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OK, so I thought about this during dinner and had to dig out my book of equations. With a 28" tire, a 5.14:1 gear and a 1:1 box at 6500 rpm it would be at 105 mph. This would be about perfect according to the power to weight ratio of a F.E.D. which should be about 1,300-1,500 pounds. I think this could work as long as the box holds up. I think the weak point in this system would be the clutch pack in the Warner Gear Velvet Drive. I have yet to have it apart to see how the stackup in the drum is. The other thing I have to check is the ratio for reverse because they say the box is reversible simply by setting the pump up for the standard rotation but I am not sure if this will change the ratio and directions of forward and reverse in regards to the manual lever and linkage.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Hollow Head, What are your power numbers (if you don't mind my asking)???
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By Hollow Head - 9 Years Ago
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In 2008 we ran with single turbo, 0.7 bar pressure, stock truck rods and stock cast pistons and we had 330 hp @ 4900 rpm and 630 Nm @ 2600 rpm.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yFwrPj8SnU
In 2012 with two turbos and 0.7 bar of boost 480 hp @ 6000rpm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YISuB4PoSYk
At the same day we tried 1.0 bar of boost and it took us to 520 hp and well over 800 Nm of torque. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxE-sQ0E-s
We run 8.723 with that set up.( Well, we put the boost up and blew one head gasket too).
In 2013 we just banged our heads to wall with no new records https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8pisGKR6Fc
Now we run with same turbos but 1.9 bar of boost, a lot bigger injectors and different ignition maps. This combination is not dynoed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-WkJ9YWij8
But it went 8.644 and it is still in one piece.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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That's awesome! I am going to run naturally aspirated with the possibility of a small injection of Nitromethane to spice things up a bit. I would like to supercharge it one day when I have more cash to spend. For now I just hope the transmission and engine work together well. Hopefully it blows the tires off halfway down the track and doesn't just kill the engine...lol! I also have an old truck 4 speed on the back burner. I am going to try the in and out box first though just for the nostalgia factor. Just doing this for me and it will be more of an attraction than a competitive car. I just can't wait to fire it up with the zoomies!!!
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