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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Hello, I am new to these engines. I have an old boat project that I have decided is just too far gone to mess with. It has a 215 hp 312ci Interceptor in it. It is a Right Hand Rotation engine.
My question is can you convert it to a left hand rotation simply with some minor crankshaft machining and swapping out the timing set and camshaft, or is the crankshaft a whole different animal?
These cranks are getting hard to find and costly. If memory serves I believe this engine has a forged rotating assembly. It would make a really cool rat-rod engine or maybe stuff it into a Ranger
or something retarded like that...lol. Any help in this area would be greatly appreciated! Thank you...
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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easey to change,different cam also oil pump different,. cant remember if distributor is the same, probley not ascam rotation diferent on marine c c rotation. marine carbs and intake was alwayes a isue. wher do you live,was engine fresh water cooled.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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The boat engine can be re-purposed for vehicle use. My understanding is that all that is needed is a car / truck camshaft, distributor, and application appropriate exhaust manifolds, oil pan, and front timing chain cover. I'm unsure about the bellhousing. The crankshaft needs no modification. No FoMoCo 312 y-block crankshafts were forged. All 312 cranks were cast iron.
Myself, I would change-out the intake manifold and carburetors as well. Some individuals have run the boat two carb intake manifold and carburetors on their street vehicles. This is more for looks than function as the two single barrel carbs used on the 312 marine application don't provide great breathing ability to the engine for street and highway rpm operating range.
The boat specific components are regularly advertised on eBay, sometimes as a package, sometimes individually.
IF you're interested in selling what you have, where are you located? Also, be aware that our Forum email and PM (personal message) system is presently working for some and not for others. Consider posting contact information in this thread if you desire personal communication.
Hope this helps. 
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Missouri. Yes, freshwater cooled. I have read that I will have to have the crank worked on because of directional drilling. Does this sound correct to you?
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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I am located in Southeast Missouri. It is currently for sale with the rare boat that it came in. The boat is more of a project than I am ready to commit to. I was thinking of building a hot rod and using that engine to power it.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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Freshwater cooling is GooD as relates to the potential condition of your engine block water jacket. The FoMoCo 272, 292, and 312 cranks used in marine applications are not drilled differently from those used in other engine applications. Remember that the engine's oiling system is pressurized. No crank modification is required or recommended assuming that there is already some chamfering of the crank main bearing and connecting rod throw oil supply holes. Yes, some of the Ford y-block marine applications had engine rotation opposite from that of FoMoCo car, truck and industrial applications.
IF you want information pertaining to your engine, the Technical section your thread is in right now is perfect. The y-block is a great engine for use in building a hot rod. They're a tough, reliable, torquey engine that can be purpose built for many different applications. The only down-side of the engine is it's weight. BUT, there are ways to reduce that! Look at John Mummert's web site at www.ford-y-block.com/ to get an idea of what's available for tailoring purposes.
IF you are interested in selling anything to Forum members, I'd recommend posting contact information you wish to use within a thread. The Classified section on our Forum would be the best place to list anything for sale. The Forum email option and the Forum PM (personal message) option are not working dependably OR for all subscribers. We had a software upgrade for the site not-too-long-ago and it created some issues that are still being worked through.
Welcome to the site.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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The RH crankshafts for the 312 Y engines had the rear seal hash marks angling off in the opposite direction from what is seen on the LH (normal direction) engines. The oil holes are okay as they were not altered for the reverse turning crankshafts which may explain why so many of those RH engines had connecting rod bearing issues. Turning the seal surface in the neighborhood of 0.010” should remove those reverse direction hash marks and still have the seal diameter okay to use with the new neoprene seals that are specific to the 312 engines. It will take a shop with a narrow stone to work on the seal area so that crankshaft oil slinger is not removed in which to do so.
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Thank you for the info and warm welcome! It is a rhr engine. I have built mostly scrubrolet products but there have been exceptions such as Briggs and Stratton, air cooled VW, 2.3 ohc Fords, Harley Davidson and Kawasakis as well as probably a few others I am forgetting like Mitsubishi 1st gen 4 cylinder sohc engines. I like this old engine because of it's nostalgia factor. I know they were a hard hitter back in the heydays of racing. Everything is for sale though!...lol. I have the entire drivetrain from this old v-drive boat as well. I read that the Borg Warner in and out box for the velvet drive is a popular drag racing piece in the nostalgia crowd. I can be reached at (573)694-2657 if anyone is serious about buying. If I sell it I would like to sell as much as possible as a whole.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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Ted (12/15/2014)
The RH crankshafts for the 312 Y engines had the rear seal hash marks angling off in the opposite direction from what is seen on the LH (normal direction) engines. The oil holes are okay as they were not altered for the reverse turning crankshafts which may explain why so many of those RH engines had connecting rod bearing issues. Turning the seal surface in the neighborhood of 0.010” should remove those reverse direction hash marks and still have the seal diameter okay to use with the new neoprene seals that are specific to the 312 engines. It will take a shop with a narrow stone to work on the seal area so that crankshaft oil slinger is not removed in which to do so.
THANKS for coming in on this, Ted. I didn't know about the hash mark direction being different on the RH rotation marine crank rear seal surface OR of the frequency of rod bearing problems associated with the RH drive marine y-blocks.
Still learnin' thanks to mentors like you!
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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I am having this evil thought of a front engine dragster powered by this little monster. Could I retain the Interceptor timing cover if I went that route (as I wouldn't be looking to spin a water pump)?
As far as the distributor, I think if I was running locked out timing I would only need to chance the gear correct? Or even flip the advance mechanism so that it worked in the opposite direction.
Anybody on here ever run a Borg Warner Velvet Drive in and out box behind a clutch??? There are a couple of small blowers for sale locally that struck my attention, but I need to keep this on the cheap so I don't know about all that nonsense...
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Thank you. I have the best machinist anywhere around this area. If it can be done, he can do it.
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By PF Arcand - 10 Years Ago
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What is the type of boat, how old is it & how bad is it in terms of a restoration? If your selling all, you might want to list it with details in our sites Classifieds for a start..
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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i am confused ,in the world hear on the west coast rotation was always looking at the engine from the front. clockwiise is the standerd auto rotation. counter clock wise is usually only used on dual engine aps,which helps keep the yacht going straight.(dual engine aps have 1 prop turning oposit to the other.onley evr worked on 1 counter clockwise y aparentley the oil pump and distrib. turn the same direction as clockwise. this bit of info from a ford guy who claims tho know the marin engines well.
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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Regarding blower use, you may want to look at this thread from our Forum. It was started last year, but has input from this past summer.
http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic80044.aspx
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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babor (12/15/2014)
I am having this evil thought of a front engine dragster powered by this little monster. Could I retain the Interceptor timing cover if I went that route (as I wouldn't be looking to spin a water pump)? As far as the distributor, I think if I was running locked out timing I would only need to chance the gear correct? Or even flip the advance mechanism so that it worked in the opposite direction. Anybody on here ever run a Borg Warner Velvet Drive in and out box behind a clutch??? There are a couple of small blowers for sale locally that struck my attention, but I need to keep this on the cheap so I don't know about all that nonsense...
If memory serves me right, the distributor in the RH engines is the same as the LH engines and rotates the same direction for both. The RH camshaft is different simply due to the reversed firing order but it still rotates the same direction as the LH engines due to the gear to gear timing setup that’s used in the RH engines. The oil pump also rotates the same direction for both the LH and RH engines.
I use the marine cover on my roadster to free up some the extra space in front of the engine which also accommodates moving the damper closer to the engine. The oil pan is likewise shorter at the front.
Here’s a picture of the front of my roadster engine.
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By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
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Ted
You're right on the rotation, but my Crusader came with a Mallory distributor. Don't know if that was original butit had been in that boat for decades.
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By Y block Billy - 10 Years Ago
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As far as I know other than the hash marks maybe being different angle is that the only thing that changes the rotations is the gears instead of a chain. With a chain both gears are turning in the same direction, when you put gears you are turning the camshaft backwards, hence the reverse rotation of the firing order. Other than Chain vs gears I think all else is same.
Maybe advance in distributor rotates backwards, will have to look.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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Ted (12/16/2014)
babor (12/15/2014)
I am having this evil thought of a front engine dragster powered by this little monster. Could I retain the Interceptor timing cover if I went that route (as I wouldn't be looking to spin a water pump)? As far as the distributor, I think if I was running locked out timing I would only need to chance the gear correct? Or even flip the advance mechanism so that it worked in the opposite direction. Anybody on here ever run a Borg Warner Velvet Drive in and out box behind a clutch??? There are a couple of small blowers for sale locally that struck my attention, but I need to keep this on the cheap so I don't know about all that nonsense... If memory serves me right, the distributor in the RH engines is the same as the LH engines. The RH camshaft is different simply due to the reversed firing order but it still rotates the same direction as the LH engines due to the gear to gear timing setup that’s used in the RH engines.
I use the marine cover on my roadster to free up some the extra space in front of the engine which also accommodates moving the damper closer to the engine. The oil pan is likewise shorter at the front. Here’s a picture of the front of my roadster engine.
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By aussiebill - 10 Years Ago
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Y block Billy (12/18/2014)
As far as I know other than the hash marks maybe being different angle is that the only thing that changes the rotations is the gears instead of a chain. With a chain both gears are turning in the same direction, when you put gears you are turning the camshaft backwards, hence the reverse rotation of the firing order. Other than Chain vs gears I think all else is same. Maybe advance in distributor rotates backwards, will have to look.
I ALLWAYS THOUGHT DUE TO THE GEAR DRIVE, THE CRANK ONLY TURNS IN OPP DIRECTION, THE CAM STILL GOES IN ORIGINAL DIRECTION, THEY CAME WITH MALLORY DIST STANDARD.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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I was referring to the industrial engins that where in trucks 1952 and up, 317 and up,they had gear driven camshaft, but they where left hand or as we call clockwise rotation(from the front). the lincons had the same familey up to 1957 but they had a chain drive cam. so i wondered was the gear cut different on the cam and dsy so they turned same as the lincon for oil pump and dist. the explanation re the marine y makes sense and would be easey to make.
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Virtually all automotive engines turn counter clockwise. Clockwise looking at them from the front you are facing the engine, mirror image. The reason some marine engines spin clockwise is because they run twins and need to even the torque twist. No idea why they spin backwards in a single engine boat...???...lol. Has to be something with the V-drive. The engine sat backwards in the boat. The engine had a factory Mallory dual point distributor. Now, I am really confused as to whether the crank is actually the same.. :/ Perhaps a different cam grind with the same oil pump, distributor, etc...or a different crank? If the camshaft rotates the same direction on both engines the oil pump and distributor would be the same in automotive and marine engines, but I guess if you switched the firing order you could leave the cam alone and just rotate in reverse...hhhmmmm. I will have answers after speaking with my uncle the GURU at the Christmas party this weekend!... 
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By snowcone - 10 Years Ago
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A single engine using a Vee drive doesn't spin the other way either.
The boat just uses a L/H or R/H prop depending on the set up
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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the reason dual engines turn different directions is to make the boate more stabel and easeyer to steer..modern dual engine aps both engines turn clockwise ,but revers gears change the direction so propes turn oposet to each other.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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babor (12/19/2014)
Virtually all automotive engines turn counter clockwise. Clockwise looking at them from the front you are facing the engine, mirror image. The reason some marine engines spin clockwise is because they run twins and need to even the torque twist. No idea why they spin backwards in a single engine boat...???...lol. Has to be something with the V-drive. The engine sat backwards in the boat. The engine had a factory Mallory dual point distributor. Now, I am really confused as to whether the crank is actually the same.. :/ Perhaps a different cam grind with the same oil pump, distributor, etc...or a different crank? If the camshaft rotates the same direction on both engines the oil pump and distributor would be the same in automotive and marine engines, but I guess if you switched the firing order you could leave the cam alone and just rotate in reverse...hhhmmmm. I will have answers after speaking with my uncle the GURU at the Christmas party this weekend!...
take a look at teds post,page2,picture worth a 1000 words. cliff
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Snowcone, this one does.
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By Y block Billy - 10 Years Ago
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After more thought on the matter, if the crank is turning reverse rotation, with gears the cam is turning the same direction as it would be with a chain on a normal clockwise rotation motor. That would make the cam, distributor and oil pump turn in the normal rotation. The only thing changed is the plug wire firing order to put each cylinder to fire on the compression stroke for the reverse crank.
Does this make a little more sense?
Now the reason for the reverse rotation in single engine boats, which most I have found are reverse rotation is unclear. Either they had an abundance of reverse rotation drives, props, or they just plain steer better in that rotation, Don't know, good question?
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By pegleg - 10 Years Ago
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Bill,
Boats with twin engines use one in reverse rotation to even the thrust out. The props are different. In the singe engine version I think you're right, lotsa gear drives.
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By Larry Short - 10 Years Ago
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This boat sounds pretty neat. Any photos of it. If I could swim I might even ask for a ride in it when it's done !!!
Larry Short
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Some of the following has been already mentioned but some of this is new. The RH engines I’ve seen are stamped “RH” on the left front of the block. The RH crankshafts (reverse rotation) are different from the LH engines in that the hash marks for the rear seal are angled the opposite direction so that the oil isn’t pumped to the outside of the engine at the rear seal area. Other differences in the RH engines includes the cam timing set (gears instead of a chain) and the camshaft which simply accommodates the reverse firing order although the camshaft still turns clockwise as seen from the front of the engine. Distributors and oil pumps are the same for both the RH and LH engines. If the oil pan is off, look for the most rearward counterweight to be painted yellow as that should designate the RH crankshaft. If the engine has been rebuilt to the point where the crankshaft has been reground, the yellow paint could possibly be gone.
Here’s a picture of a 312 RH crankshaft that has been turned into a 3.600” stroker crank for a 292 block. In turning the 312 mains down to fit a 292 block, the rear seal area is also turned down which removes the reverse direction rear seal hash marks found on the RH cranks.
Here’s a couple of pictures showing both the RH and LH camshafts. The RH camshaft is on the bottom in both pics. Cylinders 1 & 6 lobes match each other on both camshafts while the remaining cylinder lobes are different to accommodate the reversed firing order for the RH engines. The cut for the distributor gear is the same allowing the same distributor rotation to be used for each.
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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Ok, the camshaft and the hashmarks and timing set are the only "real" differences. NOW this all makes more sense!....I would love to do the boat but it's just too far gone. This engine will power something nostalgic or end up under the hood of a square body Ranger just for the WTF???...factor.
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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By charliemccraney - 10 Years Ago
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babor (12/21/2014)
....I would love to do the boat but it's just too far gone.
I know nothing about boats, but it looks to be analogous to the fairly typical car that's been neglected and needs restoration. I understand that you don't want to take it on, but please at least try to find it a good home, rather than scrapping it, if that is the plan.
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By snowcone - 10 Years Ago
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Is it possible that someone just fitted that engine because that is what they had, or sourced, or was left over from an older dual engine boat?
I can't imagine any other reason to fit a reverse direction engine in a single engine boat unless it was just a cheaper option.
I raced displacement hulls for many years and the engine rotation does not affect the steering. You can set a boat up exactly as they would set a Nascar up to turn however you want it.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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That being the case why do all dual engine boats have counter rotating props,i have bin around boats for the last 50years and have not found 1 exception. And yes you can set up a single engine so it runs strait ,but when it runs strait the ruder is slightly off centre in the strt ahead position.I do agree that there is no reason to have a counter c.w. engine in a single engine boat .most likely when larger dual eng boats wher re powered the orphan c.c.wise was cheap and hard to ger rid of. ther must have bin thousands of the y block marine engines built ,as you still hear of some for sale. The newer diesel powered yachts have bothe engines runing c.wise but 1 reverse gear is in reverse with linkage so when bothe levers ar forwerd 1 gear is really in reverse. wher i worked we supplyd engines for a builder most had the engines aft with v drives ,same deal the 1 gear forwerd 2nd opposite. this was with cat and perkkins pleasure craft rated engines ,walters drives ,borgwarner reverce gears
one isue i am unsure of is some aplications props turned inward and oposit. some turned outwerd and oposit.Hopfulley some one can help us on that
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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This is a rare boat and is completely original aside from the Buick steering wheel. 1962 Triumph 18' sport run about built by Storecrafters Inc. The engine is a right hand rotation 312 Interceptor 215hp with dual side draft carbs and mounted backwards in the boat with a right handed prop. Borg Warner Velvet Drive and a reverse box. The best I can figure is that they wanted the weight in the rear as opposed to mid mounted for higher speed stability. I found the son of one of the original engineers and employees of Storecrafters boat division and spoke with him on the phone a few years back. Cool guy. I would love to find it a home where it could get the proper restoration that it deserves. Any volunteers please feel free to chime in! I will work with somebody that wants to step up to the plate and really do it. The price would be very reasonable and I could hold it for a bit if somebody is serious(within reason of course).
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By snowcone - 10 Years Ago
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snowcone (12/21/2014)
Is it possible that someone just fitted that engine because that is what they had, or sourced, or was left over from an older dual engine boat? I can't imagine any other reason to fit a reverse direction engine in a single engine boat unless it was just a cheaper option. I raced displacement hulls for many years and the engine rotation does not affect the steering. You can set a boat up exactly as they would set a Nascar up to turn however you want it.
Twin engine boats obviously have the props closer to each side so in that application having both screws going in the same rotation would cause some steering issues and possible even porpoising, but I think it is more to do with harmonics than anything else.
Would it not be easier to just have an idler gear in the drive train to reverse the prop direction on one of the pair rather than to redesign an engine?
Probably not as if it was this easy then this would be the case, but no there must be other forces at play than just prop directional rotation.
In a single engine application it doesn't matter which way the engine rotates.
Most social ski boats are mid engined with a straight shaft and dog clutch or velvet drive. When you move up to ski or circuit race boat then the engine is usually a rear mount running through a Vee box hence the same engine is now spinning the prop shaft in the opposite direction and requiring a L/H prop.
Both boats operate perfectly as they were designed and steer and handle correctly despite spinning the prop shafts in opposite directions.
I would still tend to hypothesise that this engine was made available at a price that couldn't be refused from a cancelled order or a previous twin engine boat.
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By babor - 10 Years Ago
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That is very possible, especially considering that the 1962 boat ran a 1957-8 312. The company was only in the boat business for a few years and the machines they designed were pretty ahead of their time. This boat ran about 50mph on the water and supposedly could do a full throttle U-turn in a radius the length of the hull. I'm told it would pull a skier out at about a quarter throttle. It was a good friends uncles, then his dad's. He has told me some stories. It had a wooden plaque on the rear that said JOKER.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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2721955meteor (12/22/2014)
That being the case why do all dual engine boats have counter rotating props, ......
When two or more props are involved, then counter rotation helps to compensate for the magnified torque thrust that would be present if the props were simply rotating the same direction. Air planes with dual (or more) engines also have counter rotating props and this goes all the way back to the Wright Brothers with their first flight which had dual props. The Wright Brothers had this figured out before ever making their first attempt to get their plane off the ground.
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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snowcone (12/22/2014)
snowcone (12/21/2014)
Is it possible that someone just fitted that engine because that is what they had, or sourced, or was left over from an older dual engine boat? I can't imagine any other reason to fit a reverse direction engine in a single engine boat unless it was just a cheaper option. I raced displacement hulls for many years and the engine rotation does not affect the steering. You can set a boat up exactly as they would set a Nascar up to turn however you want it. Twin engine boats obviously have the props closer to each side so in that application having both screws going in the same rotation would cause some steering issues and possible even porpoising, but I think it is more to do with harmonics than anything else. Would it not be easier to just have an idler gear in the drive train to reverse the prop direction on one of the pair rather than to redesign an engine? Probably not as if it was this easy then this would be the case, but no there must be other forces at play than just prop directional rotation. In a single engine application it doesn't matter which way the engine rotates. Most social ski boats are mid engined with a straight shaft and dog clutch or velvet drive. When you move up to ski or circuit race boat then the engine is usually a rear mount running through a Vee box hence the same engine is now spinning the prop shaft in the opposite direction and requiring a L/H prop. Both boats operate perfectly as they were designed and steer and handle correctly despite spinning the prop shafts in opposite directions. I would still tend to hypothesise that this engine was made available at a price that couldn't be refused from a cancelled order or a previous twin engine boat.
modern dual engine boats have clockwise rotating engines,with 1gear in reverse to acomplish what you stated. modern reverse gears have same size clutches for forwerd and reverse. with vdrives you still need 1rev 1 forwerd.cat or perkins do not make cc engines,in the marine world.
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By aussiebill - 10 Years Ago
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snowcone (12/21/2014)
Is it possible that someone just fitted that engine because that is what they had, or sourced, or was left over from an older dual engine boat? I can't imagine any other reason to fit a reverse direction engine in a single engine boat unless it was just a cheaper option. I raced displacement hulls for many years and the engine rotation does not affect the steering. You can set a boat up exactly as they would set a Nascar up to turn however you want it.
Gary, good luck with this ! chuckle.
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By Y block Billy - 10 Years Ago
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All single engine Y Block boats I have come across were reverse rotation. It either has to do with an over abundance of reverse rotation drives/props and it was probably cheaper to reverse the motor rotation than to buy a new drive who knows? Maybe the companies building the boats got a super deal on reverse rotation drives in order to use them up? There must be somebody in the boat bussiness that knows the reason.
I was not aware of the differnces in the cams (Teach me to listen to unconfirmed sources)
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By 2721955meteor - 10 Years Ago
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just had access to web site re dual engine instalations. ther quote is counter rotating props a must for neutralizing propellor torqe which dramaticle improves vesel handeling and performance.Aded to makes vesel easeyer to dock and turn..Aswell as propes turning port cw starboard ccw lifts the stern . props turning port ccw starb.cw. lifts the bow.
could find no info on single engines being ccw frome the front being aney advantage.or reason other than prev.coments
have a reletive who ownes a 45ft pleasure craft with 2 c9cats rated at 500hp each driven threw twin disc gears( 1 runs reverse other forwerd) to give the counter cw and ccw rotating props.controles work as if bothe ar forwerd in the forwerd position.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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Ya know...thinking about this in that aspect, wouldn't it also make sense that to stabilize the single engine torque rotation that if you reverse the engine from the prop, you then would also even out the torque twist from a big engine in a relatively small watercraft? This makes sense.
Anyway, what trans combination would be best for a F.E.D. with this engine and a radical cam, headwork, etc...???
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By 2721955meteor - 9 Years Ago
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ther ar maney choices for gears. if you ar useing a vdrive prop shaft would turn oposit engine, if you use a center mount engine witha simple forwerd reverse boxb warners can be set for ether rotation. reduction gear you will have a choice of rotation, (on modern) gears. if looking for a gear ,i would consult a marine dealer for best results.
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By babor - 9 Years Ago
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I am not putting it back into a boat. I was thinking about installing a clutch in front of the Velvet Drive and using it to power a nostalgia front engine dragster.
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