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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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Yesterday I pulled the center section on the rear end from my 1955 Fairlane Club Sedan to check ratio and condition. I was expecting a 3.89:1 as it is an 8 cylinder car with manual transmission. This is what I found on the ring gear. AG-4210 -B-"C" Ford 10X37. This would be 3.70:1. My confusion is that neither the shop manual for '55 or the 1949-1959 Car Parts Catalog list a 3.70:1 differential. The 4210 is confusing as the parts catalog shows the number for the Ring and Pinion as 4209 (unless 4210 is the ring gear alone). Also etched on the ring gear in hand writing is 8536 although the 8 looks like a S with a diagonal line. The differential case looks like the '55-56 model although I understand the earlier cases are the same. The parts catalog lists a 3.70:1 but only for the '57. I believe this would be a 9" rear end. Anybody know what I have here? Also I feel the 3.70 gears would work well with the T5 transmission. I can get a 3.89 center section What do you think?
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By pegleg - 11 Years Ago
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If you pulled the center section out, You have an 8 or 9'' rear end. the 55/56 would open from the rear with a cover. Send us a photo.
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By paul2748 - 11 Years Ago
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My understanding is that the 55/56 sedans had a rear that the chuck pulled out like a 8 or 9 inch. The wagons had a Dana, which had the opening at the rear of the housing. However, the 55/56 sedan rear was not the same as the later 8 inch or 9 inch and parts are not inter-changeable. Danas were also used in 55/56 Birds.
pegleg (11/17/2014)
If you pulled the center section out, You have an 8 or 9'' rear end. the 55/56 would open from the rear with a cover. Send us a photo.
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By PF Arcand - 11 Years Ago
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Mark: If I recall correctly (it was many years ago) my '55 club sedan, 272 c/w std trans, was a 3.73 ratio..however it might have been 3.70. As I understand it, those design rear ends were used in all '55-'56 sedans. I read somewhere that the 3.89 ratio was the higher option (lower #) for the O.D. trans. The correct description of that rear axle escapes me at the moment. The heavier Dana units were found in wagons, sedan deliveries & early T. Birds. I seem to recall that Bruce Young at Y-Blk magazine wrote an item, a long time back, about that 4210 designation you posted, but the details I don't remember unfortunately..
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Paul and Paul 2748 you are right. I have the Dana 44 in my pickup and its the same rear end as the T birds, Country Squire, Country Sedan, Ranch Wagon Courier and Interceptor models. My shop manual refers to the rear end I have as Banjo Housing Hypoid Rear Axle. The Dana 44 is termed Integral Housing Hypoid Rear Axle. The manual lists the ratios available for the Banjo axle as : 35 Drive,9 pinion 3.89:1 for standard and OD 6 and 8 cylinder; 33 Drive 10 Pinion 3.30:1 Fordomatic 6 and 8 cylinders; 32 Drive 9 Pinion, 3.56:1 Fordomatic 6 and 8 cylinders; 37 Drive 9 Pinion 4.11:1, OD 6 cylinder; 34 Drive 9 Pinion, 3.78:1 standard 8 Cylinder. Does not show 37 Drive 10 pinion, 3.70:1. but the ring gear has this inscribed on it right beside the Ford insignia. The 1949-59 Parts catalog lists a number of other ratios but also no 3.70:1.
Paul Arcande the 1949 -59 parts catalog lists a 3.73:1 but it is for a Thunderbird or Police Interceptor so it would have been a Dana 44.
My wife (who knows how to drive a car and that's about it for automobiles) walked by as I was staring at this center section, so I asked her why there is a 3.70:1 ratio on the ring gear but no listing for it. She said in an asking kind of way "Because its a Mercury?" which got me thinking. Wonder what they put in Monarchs and Meteors, maybe its Canadian eh? Makes me wonder even what year it is. I have been told that the '55 '56 Banjo rear ends were not heavy duty. Well after pulling the center section out from under the car it may not be duty but it certainly is heavy. Also there is supposed to be a difference between the '55 '56 and the '49 '54 version but in the parts catalog they look eerily identical. Just curious where it comes from.
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By PF Arcand - 11 Years Ago
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Mark: Now that you mention it, what I thought was 3.73 was likely 3.78. If you aren't too heavy footed it should be o.k. for street use. A lot of young drivers years ago would break rear axles and differentials doing stupid stuff, like spinning one wheel in the gravel until it hit the pavement, resulting in breakage of one sort or another, and then blame the manufacturer for a weak product..
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By aussiebill - 11 Years Ago
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lyonroad (11/16/2014)
Yesterday I pulled the center section on the rear end from my 1955 Fairlane Club Sedan to check ratio and condition. I was expecting a 3.89:1 as it is an 8 cylinder car with manual transmission. This is what I found on the ring gear. AG-4210 -B-"C" Ford 10X37. This would be 3.70:1. My confusion is that neither the shop manual for '55 or the 1949-1959 Car Parts Catalog list a 3.70:1 differential. The 4210 is confusing as the parts catalog shows the number for the Ring and Pinion as 4209 (unless 4210 is the ring gear alone). Also etched on the ring gear in hand writing is 8536 although the 8 looks like a S with a diagonal line. The differential case looks like the '55-56 model although I understand the earlier cases are the same. The parts catalog lists a 3.70:1 but only for the '57. I believe this would be a 9" rear end. Anybody know what I have here? Also I feel the 3.70 gears would work well with the T5 transmission. I can get a 3.89 center section What do you think?
3.89 was 3 speed o/drive, 3,.70 was 3 spds manual.
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By Brodie55 - 11 Years Ago
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A photo would help id it.
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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aussiebill (11/17/2014)
3.89 was 3 speed o/drive, 3,.70 was 3 spds manual.
Thanks Aussie, although I am still baffled as to why there is no listing in the Shop manual or the '49-'59 Parts catalog. Perhaps the 3.70:1 replaced the 3.78:1 ratio (listed in my references as for the 3 spd. manual) in Canadian/Australian Fords.
For those that requested photos here are some.
  
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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This center section case has AF 4025 C and 10-8-54 cast into it. Assuming month day year - October 8, 1954. Reasonable I guess for a 1955 car?
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By DryLakesRacer - 11 Years Ago
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From my limited experience where the u-joint bolts on it is a 1955 or earlier. From what I'm told a 1956 has the type on the the third member that looks like the 8 or 9" of today. My 1956 has a 1955 third member as it has the drive end like the one in the photo and a 1956 u-joint would not work..
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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So DLR, are the '55 and the '56 drive shafts different. The '55 uses a "mechanics"(I forget the number) rear u joint while the '56 would use a 1310 joint or similar? Can the rear yoke on the '55 rearend be swapped out for one from a '56 rear end if you wanted a drive shaft with 1310 u joints at each end? The reason I ask is I have to find a a drive shaft.
Thanks.
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By DryLakesRacer - 11 Years Ago
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Like I said, my experience is pretty limited with these. All I know is a bought a u-joint for a 1956 and it looked like a 1310 but it could not be used and I had to find one for a 1955 and earlier. I don't know on changing yokes without a new crush sleeve or if 56's fit. I'm looking to put an 8" out of a Ford Maverick or Merc Comet in mine...I understand it's a pretty swap...Good Luck..
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By oldcarmark - 11 Years Ago
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Hey Mark! The Canadian Chassis Parts Catalog lists a 3.70:1 as Part # B5A-4209-F.
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By PWH42 - 11 Years Ago
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All 56s,except wagons,police,couriers and 312 cars came with the same rear end as 55s and used the mechanics joint.The exceptions came with a Dana 44,with is a much stronger unit.The only difference in 55 and 56 is that 56s used slightly faster ratios.
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By paul2748 - 11 Years Ago
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A simple way to check the ratio (if it is still a mystery of what it is or to verify the ratio) is to count the number of teeth on the ring gear and the and pinion gear and divide the pinion no. into the ring no (assuming you haven't done this already)
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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oldcarmark (11/18/2014)
Hey Mark! The Canadian Chassis Parts Catalog lists a 3.70:1 as Part # B5A-4209-F.
Thanks Mark. So it is a Canadian ratio. I'll write that down.
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks Paul (PWH42).
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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paul2748 (11/18/2014)
A simple way to check the ratio (if it is still a mystery of what it is or to verify the ratio) is to count the number of teeth on the ring gear and the and pinion gear and divide the pinion no. into the ring no (assuming you haven't done this already)
Thanks Paul. The ring gear count (37) and the Pinion count (10) = 3.70"1 is stamped into the ring gear.
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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DryLakesRacer (11/18/2014)
Like I said, my experience is pretty limited with these. All I know is a bought a u-joint for a 1956 and it looked like a 1310 but it could not be used and I had to find one for a 1955 and earlier. I don't know on changing yokes without a new crush sleeve or if 56's fit. I'm looking to put an 8" out of a Ford Maverick or Merc Comet in mine...I understand it's a pretty swap...Good Luck..
Thanks DLR. From the research I have done the '57 -'59 ford 9" rears in the Fords, Rancheros and Station Wagons are the same width as the '55 '56 cars. Also, I believe that the Dana 44's from the Thunderbirds and Station Wagons are the same width as well. Also the '65 and '66 Mustangs have an 8" that is the same width. This would lead me to suspect that the myriad of 9" rear axles built for the early Mustang crowd could be candidates as well. The 8" rears in the 74-78 Mustangs are 1/4" narrower. The 8" rears in the '69-'77 Mavericks were 3/4" narrower. Whether or not the spring perches in any or all of these would have to be moved I don't know, but there are a lot of options. I will worry about that if and when I grow weary of the stock axle.
Thanks again.
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By paul2748 - 11 Years Ago
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The 54 cars had the same width as the 55/56 car, I put a 57 nine inch under my 54. I am assuming the 52/53's are the same. Spring pads in the early Mustang are the same as 54-56 as are the 57/58 9 inchers. Not sure on the 59 rears. Don't know about any of the other rears mentioned.
lyonroad (11/18/2014)
DryLakesRacer (11/18/2014)
Like I said, my experience is pretty limited with these. All I know is a bought a u-joint for a 1956 and it looked like a 1310 but it could not be used and I had to find one for a 1955 and earlier. I don't know on changing yokes without a new crush sleeve or if 56's fit. I'm looking to put an 8" out of a Ford Maverick or Merc Comet in mine...I understand it's a pretty swap...Good Luck.. Thanks DLR. From the research I have done the '57 -'59 ford 9" rears in the Fords, Rancheros and Station Wagons are the same width as the '55 '56 cars. Also, I believe that the Dana 44's from the Thunderbirds and Station Wagons are the same width as well. Also the '65 and '66 Mustangs have an 8" that is the same width. This would lead me to suspect that the myriad of 9" rear axles built for the early Mustang crowd could be candidates as well. The 8" rears in the 74-78 Mustangs are 1/4" narrower. The 8" rears in the '69-'77 Mavericks were 3/4" narrower. Whether or not the spring perches in any or all of these would have to be moved I don't know, but there are a lot of options. I will worry about that if and when I grow weary of the stock axle. Thanks again.
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By CK - 11 Years Ago
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I have the same Diff in my 55 Tbird, which is obviously not original. However mine has a 3.3:1 Ratio giving me better highway speed.
When I posted asking for advice on what diff it actually was, I was lead to believe it was a 55, 56 shoebox.
I recently fitted a Customline Pinion seal.
The axles look fairly strong 17 spline about the same diameter as the 28 spline 9" axles.
Any Idea if I posi-lock (LSD) can be found for one of these?
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By Pete 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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A reply to CK. My 55 Tbird has that rear axle and that is the way FORD made them. The 1959 Ford F150 came with a Dana 44 ( like the 55 Tbirds) and it could be ordered with a limited slip. The axles are 19 spline, not 17. Pete
PS. To be clear the 55 Tbird had a dana 44 and the factory rear axle ratio for a Ford O Matic car was 3.31. It is not a drop out. Sorry if I misled anyone. Pete
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By pegleg - 11 Years Ago
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Learned something, thought all dana's were rear loading. Now I know.
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By Carson - 11 Years Ago
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Easy way to know what your rear end gear ratio is when everything is installed ( not the case here ) is to jack up the rear end ,put a mark on the drive shaft , turn rear wheel a full complete turn ( 360 ) and count the revolutions of the drive shaft. example : one full turn wheel turn = 3.5 drive shaft turns = 3.50 gears
giddy up, Carson
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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CK (11/19/2014)
I have the same Diff in my 55 Tbird, which is obviously not original. However mine has a 3.3:1 Ratio giving me better highway speed.
When I posted asking for advice on what diff it actually was, I was lead to believe it was a 55, 56 shoebox.
I recently fitted a Customline Pinion seal.
The axles look fairly strong 17 spline about the same diameter as the 28 spline 9" axles.
Any Idea if I posi-lock (LSD) can be found for one of these?
CK, I am now the proud owner of 2 center sections for the '55 '56 rear ends. One 3.70:1 and the other 3.89:1. Swapping center sections on these rears is fairly easy so I can see which one I like better. I am curious about the installation of a new Pinion Seal in the '55'56 rear end. The shop manual tells me to "Mark the position of the universal joint flange, nut, and pinion shaft with a punch to obtain the same pre-load when assembling the unit." I am not sure where the marks should be placed. I think that the purpose of the marks is to ensure that the universal joint flange is matched spline for spline with its original position and to ensure that the nut is re-tightened to the same torque as it was found. How does one know that the preload on a 60 year old rearend is correct as found. This process seems to me that it could be a tad imprecise
Thanks.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Mark, The shop manual assumes that the preload was correct from the factory or re-build and you mark the positions ( witness mark) to get that crush, pre load back. It does not address the spline location. Pete
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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Pete 55Tbird (11/20/2014)
Mark, The shop manual assumes that the preload was correct from the factory or re-build and you mark the positions ( witness mark) to get that crush, pre load back. It does not address the spline location. Pete
Pete, just to be clear, I mark the pinion flange and the nearest thread on the pinion with a center punch and then return the flange and nut to the same position and pay no attention to the torque value? In order for this to happen I think the flange would have to be lined up with the splines as it came off - or am I missing something.
Mark
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By CK - 11 Years Ago
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Well i am not to sure if the pinion even had a collapsible spacer and the only tension at present is the lock of the nut.
I tightened it by feel, as i did my apprenticeship reconditioning diffs. Lots of 9" fabrications.
I also recently bought a 9" which i am converting to fit with 4 link.
So you are saying the 55 Tbirds were made with Dana and Banjo diffs.
my Tbird id says it was build no.247. maybe the early ones were built with the banjo.
I like the banjo style diffs to recondition. working on the bench is much easier than under the car.
It was such a smelly Job.
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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Thanks CK. The Tbirds, Station Wagons, Sedan Deliveries, Pickups came with the stronger Dana 44. The cars came with the banjo style with the removable center section like a 9". I forgot that you were working on a Dana 44 when I asked for your advice. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks.
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By Pete 55Tbird - 11 Years Ago
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Mark. The flange is indexed to the snout of the pinion so the splines are always in the same relative position. You want a preload of X inch pounds to turn the shaft after you replace the seal. To do this the quick and dirty way. You MARK the position of the large nut relative to the pinion shaft so the same tension ( pre load) is reapplied on reassembly. USE GOOGLE YOUTUBE and watch some videos if this is still not clear. Ignore the NOISE and good intensions. Pete
PS, The final tension is 175 to 225 FOOT LBS so you have to hold the yoke while you tighten the nut. Use a fixture of some sort. After you tighten and line up the marks you made BEFORE you disassembled it. Then the torque to rotate the yoke is 8 to 10 INCH LBS
Second PS. The witness marks are one on the large nut holding the the yoke to the pinion shaft. And one on the snout of the pinion shaft to show how tight the nut was torqued at last assembly.
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By lyonroad - 11 Years Ago
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I'll follow your instructions to the letter Pete. Thank you very much.
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By 2721955meteor - 11 Years Ago
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mark forget the marks just tighten the nut with a impact till you feel some drag,once the tube is crushed you remove the nut to inst seal you only need to be sure the nut is reasonably tight,dont need to crush the tub just snugth nut a touch past wher it was.the tube crush is pretty crude way to pre load a bearing. but is seems to work. home give me a call when you ar up to a coffee cliff
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