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By alvin - 10 Years Ago
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Hi everybody. I've just joined the forum. First off, I've known and loved y-blocks for 35 years. My first love was a 56 Victoria 2 door hardtop. I purchased it in 1979 and I still own it. Amazingly enough I have never modified a y- block. The reason that this is ironic is because modifying engines is what I do. I own a 5 axis cnc head porting machine and a Superflow 600 flowbench and on any given day my son and I can be found in the shop carving out a living. We see cast iron gt-40 heads, pro-stock style heads and everything in between. The hustle and bustle of making a living has kept me away from my Vicky for so long. About two months ago, I decided to make getting that 56 rolling a priority. This includes a shiny new paint job, all new upholstery, and a dual quad 292. Which brings me here. Id like to consult the knowledgeable people here for this build. I have a good deal of race engine experience, but little y-block experience. I will try my hand at porting a set o ECZ-G heads. I am open to advice and constructive criticism and I will keep you guys posted about my progress. Thanks in advance.
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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Alvin. Welcome to the site. Horsepower increases as a result of porting the Y heads is significant and especially if coupled with compression ratio and camshaft changes. 500+ HP is doable out of the iron heads as I’m aware of at least two normally aspirated Y’s doing this. I had a hand in the short block build of a 510 HP Y that was using a pair of John Mummert's ported 113 castings. And out of another shop was the Cain engine which also broke the 500 HP normally aspirated barrier while also using iron heads. I don’t remember off hand if the Cain engine had the G or 113 castings but there was an article on this engine in a past issue of Y-Block Magazine. As a general rule, the 113 castings will outflow the G heads in stock form but if going the porting route, then either head is a suitable candidate. I'll add that if using the G heads, then using as set that's 'posted' is desirable and especially if considering heavy milling to the heads and/or increasing the compression ratio.
Modern intake manifolds for the Y exceed most performance numbers that can be derived from any of the older dual quad intake manifold designs. In a recent dual quad intake test, it was only when the older design dual intakes were professionally ported did they at least equal the performance of a Blue Thunder or Mummert dual plane aluminum single four barrel intake manifold. Even the dual quad sheet metal intakes that have been tested alongside the aluminum single four intakes fall short. The stacked ports do throw an additional nuance into the intake flows. Here are links to the dual quad testing articles that were published in the Y-Block Magazine. http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/01/15/y-block-ford-dual-quad-testing-on-iron-heads-part-i/ http://www.eatonbalancing.com/blog/2014/01/17/y-block-ford-dual-quad-testing-on-aluminum-heads-part-ii/
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By NoShortcuts - 10 Years Ago
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Welcome to the site.
Consider connecting with John Mummert, Alvin. John and his son, Geoff, have both done extensive hand porting work of y-block heads. At an earlier time they offered y-block head porting in both a street or race purposed configuration. Contact information for reaching John is available on his web site at Ford-y-block.com Recommendation... forget email, call him!
Several years ago now, after getting as much HP out of the original Ford iron heads as was likely possible, John set-out to design a replacement cylinder head with improved porting and combustion chambers for the y-block application. These are available today and dyno testing has shown that as an out-of-the-box bolt-on they yield 50 additional hp to a test y- block engine. John is also now offering a CNC ported upgrade on the heads he's marketing. ______________________________
Y-block head porting has its limitations due to the original Ford design and casting nuances. The original y-block heads that have been usually sought and modified for performance purposes are the: '57, '58 ECZ-Gs with 69cc combustion chambers '58, '59 5752-113s with 72 cc combustion chambers, and the '59 5750-471s with 82 cc combustion chambers (these are frequently sought for supercharged and turbocharged applications that require a lower static compression ratio)
NOTE: - The above heads all use the largest intake valves Ford used in the y-block, 1.92 inches. - My understanding is that the above heads with the exception noted below have the same intake and exhaust porting passageways - There are three differences in ECZ-G heads. The one to be aware of when doing porting work is that the small letter ECZ-G heads were cast at a different foundry and, surprisingly, significantly different sand cores were used for making both the intake and exhaust porting. My understanding is that the small letter ECZ-G heads were only produced during the '57 model year and that none were used on the '57 'Birds. ______________________________
As an encouragement to your efforts, I believe that there is a market for CNC porting of y-block iron heads. While John's heads are realistically priced and offer superior performance over ported FoMoCo original y-heads, some like myself see benefit to iron heads for our street engine applications. ______________________________
Historically, there is one book and one series of magazine articles on the Ford y-block that would be of interest to you. The book, Ford Y-Block by James Eickman has been reproduced, BUT copies of the book have pictures that are largely too dark to distinguish what is being depicted. The original printing of the book was 3/8 inch thick and the title on the book spine was 2 1/4 inches in length. The reprinted book is 5/16 of an inch thick and the title on the spine is 1 1/16 inches in length. The reprinted version is routinely offered on eBay Motors. I was able to secure the earlier printing on eBay using the previous information to question the seller.
The eleven part series on rebuilding y-block engine was done in Street Rod magazine over the course of calendar year 1999 and can be secured with persistence from Amazon in used form. The only month that there was not info pertaining to the engine build was August. ______________________________
Recently, a long awaited book by Charles Morris has been released and is available on eBay Motors and from Amazon to name two sources. The title of Morris' book is Ford Y-Block Engines How to Rebuild and Modify
Again, welcome to the Forum. Let us know if we can be of additional help going forward.
Regards, |
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By The Master Cylinder - 10 Years Ago
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NoShortcuts (6/8/2014)
Historically, there is one book and one series of magazine articles on the Ford y-block that would be of interest to you. The book, Ford Y-Block by James Eickman has been reproduced, BUT copies of the book have pictures that are largely too dark to distinguish what is being depicted. The original printing of the book was 3/8 inch thick and the title on the book spine was 2 1/4 inches in length. The reprinted book is 5/16 of an inch thick and the title on the spine is 1 1/16 inches in length.
Regards,
That's good info right there. It makes it very easy to spot an original while perusing the swap meets. I have two originals myself, one that is still in the original plastic wrapping. No, not for sale...
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By The Master Cylinder - 10 Years Ago
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Oh, and Alvin. Welcome to the site.
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By alvin - 10 Years Ago
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Thanks guys for the warm welcome. Let me know if you find it a little strange when I use the word love in conjunction with 56 Victorias and Y-blocks. I'll tone it down a bit. My passion for Fords started when I was a small child seated between my mom and dad in a 55 Ford station wagon. That front seat view was priceless. The wrap around windshield distorted images in the corners. The Astra-dial speedometer showed everyone in the car how fast you were going. When I was six years old, I told myself, One day, I'll own one of these. That day came in 1979. 18 years old and first year of college, I purchased the first of eight 56 Ford cars. Fast forward 35 years. I've put my two kids through college and for the first time in my adult life, it all about me. Its time to fulfill the lifelong dream. My horsepower goal will likely be limited by my tolerance for cam and converter. This car must cruise the interstate at 70 mph. It must run on 93 octane fuel and it must idle with air-conditioning. These things will limit camshaft which will ultimately limit horsepower. So far I have 3 complete engines with ECG-G heads and a 1957 dual quad intake. The only thing that's "off the table", is aluminum heads. The budget wont allow. Everything else is up for consideration. As I said before, I'm open for advise. By the way, I have the early copy of the Y-block book. Would the new SA Design book be helpful?
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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First, where do you live? It helps to know for contacts. This site is riddled with guys that "love" Y-Blocks so its more like you've found your place. In the recent years the 500hp street Y-Block has become a reality thanks to a lot of work by members of the site and one or two old crusties that don't do "computer". Welcome home! Chuck
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By alvin - 10 Years Ago
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Baton Rouge, Louisiana
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By MoonShadow - 10 Years Ago
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Darn, I was just in Marksville at the Paragon resort and casino. I have worked with the Tunica Biloxi tribe for 20 years as a Pow Wow consultant. Would love to meet up sometime. There is a member here from Shreveport. Chuck
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By PF Arcand - 10 Years Ago
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Alvin: Welcome here.. As you probably are becoming aware, there have been numorous "late " developments re our favorite engine. I think you'll find it very interesting. Another reference you might want to consider is a subscription to Y-Block Magazine, now in it's 20th year. You can link from this sites opening page to it, and get an e address for further information.. You didn't mention what transmission that you're likely to use? If a Fordomatic, you might want to link to John Mummert's page also, where he lists several camshafts with recommendations re transmissions etc.. Have fun!
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By The Master Cylinder - 10 Years Ago
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alvin (6/8/2014)
... My passion for Fords started when I was a small child seated between my mom and dad in a 55 Ford station wagon...
Alvin here's a picture of my first "ride". I was 5 years old. The 1955 Ranchwagon was new. Tho not the same one I do have a '55 Ranchwagon today ~59 years later..
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By Rono - 10 Years Ago
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Alvin;
Welcome to the site. No shortage of technical expertise here. Sounds like you and I have similar rides and at least at the start of this post, you had a similar engine build in mind to my 56 Customline Victoria. I used dual Edlebrock #1404 carbs on an Edlebrock #257 with carb spacers that I port matched. I built this motor almost 10 years ago prior to the availability of a lot of the new performance parts you can get now. As Ted and others have said, probably not as well performing as one of John M's new aluminum intakes and aluminum heads, but pretty good performance with no issues at all.Once again, welcome to the site!
Rono |
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By alvin - 10 Years Ago
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You guys rule! This is the stuff that dreams are made of. In mapping out my y-block build, I have a number of things to consider. First, I will use stock exhaust manifolds. I have 2 sets of the 1957 large type. The car currently has an air cooled Ford-o-matic, I'm looking into a c4 or an aod conversion. Then there's air conditioning. Even though the factory air unit doesn't use vacuum, I still want a stable idle with the air on. About carburetion, I love the look of two Holley tea pots. I understand that the modern 4 barrel intake will out perform it by a long shot, but the appearance of the dual quads is priceless. Also, what happens to non posted heads? Do they blow head gaskets or do they crack? What makes it happen? Is it static compression? Or is it high horsepower?
Alvin
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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alvin (6/10/2014)
.....Also, what happens to non posted heads? Do they blow head gaskets or do they crack? What makes it happen? Is it static compression? Or is it high horsepower? Milling unposted heads excessively gives the head gaskets the opportunity to fail simply due to the head decks being too thin to adequately support the head gasket. The posted heads added internal supports within the water jackets so that the head gasket sealing ring would be tighter against the head. Here’s the link to a past thread showing how to identify posted heads.http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/FindPost47308.aspx
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By Ted - 10 Years Ago
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alvin (6/10/2014)
....About carburetion, I love the look of two Holley tea pots. I understand that the modern 4 barrel intake will out perform it by a long shot, but the appearance of the dual quads is priceless. My carb of choice for the dual quads would be the Teapots. They are small enough that over carburetion is not an issue and the true vacuum secondary design allows the throttle to be fully opened at low rpms without any major ‘gasping’ taking place. It’s important though that the same year model Teapots be used as matching pairs and ideally using those Teapots that have very similar list numbers. If simply wanting to use new carburetors or something that's readily available, then the 500 cfm Edelbrocks would be the next choice on the list. I've tested the 625 cfm Street Demons on a couple of different Y dual quad engines and they are simply just too much carburetion for the small cubed Y engines set up in a daily driver format.
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