Michael

       what I basically did was join two brake lines togther with one being smaller.  I did this by taking the tube down to a Car Quest store and matching things up.  Pretty straight forward.

                                                Michael

Thanks for bringing up this topic.  I've been thinking that my engine is sucking a little too much oil around the intake valves.  I'm running a pair of restricted return tubes, I pinched them down around a small drill bit.  We also cut the center groove deeper on my Schneider cam and I've got the old umbrella valve seals.  Now I'm going to go back to the stock return tubes and also install a set of the old baffles under the rocker arms.  I've got a longer set of pushrods to get the rocker geometry closer to where it should be. 

You mention an article by John Mummert in YBM re. these return tubes- I don't remember seeing it.  Could you give me an idea as to when it appeared?  I can look through my back issues but there are about 14 years worth of them, according to Bruce's notes in the #84 issue that just came today.  Thanks to Ted for a couple of interesting articles in this issue, it saddens me that they wouldn't accept his Y block (2007 Engine Master Challenge)because of the mushroom lifters. 

Have fun, Nick Brann/ K.C., MO

Sorry for the stupid question, but WTH are the valve spring baffles?  Im not sure my engine ever had these, but I do have a problem with oil consumption (using OE umbrella guides).  Machine shop that worked on my heads told me that I didnt need the triangular shaped plates that were on each end of the stands, and that I should get rid of the tubes on the end of the rocker assy.  They threaded the holes and plugged them.  So should I get new tubes and replace the plugs?  Were the originals threaded, or do I now have to go buy a little brake line and make these?

Any thoughts are appreciated!  I really wish I would have found this site when I was building the engine... would have saved me a lot of grief, methinks....

THANKS for the response.  I got the drain tubes; going to install them today.  However, do you know if Teds geometry articles are available on line?  Ive been derelict in retaining old copies and renewing my YBM subscription....OOPS!! Never mind; I found it on Teds web site... what a great source of information!!  THANKS!

I don't want to cause any problems for anyone interested in rebuilding their rocker assemblies the way I have demonstrated in my Video. I see a few discussions pop up from time to time so I know it has been on the minds of some.

I would like to start by saying that I have used this set up with no problems so far in my engines, this is with a grooved center cam journal, new valves & guides, and very clean heads. After reading some of the concerns I freely admit there could be a problem in certain cases. If you have grooved the block behind the center cam bearing and have no restriction to the rockers this could fill the head faster than the oil can drain back. If you don't have the overflow tubes and the return passages are clogged partially with sludge the oil will not drain back fast enough, and if your valve guides have noticeable wear this could cause smoking in any case.

I'm not trying to convert the "Y" world to my way of thinking, if you have good clean parts and passages go ahead and use the overflow tubes.  I'm sure your engine will work fine, they have for decades.   I do however think it is a good idea to cut a small groove across the oil hole on the shafts for better oil distribution no mater which way you go.

I'm still not trying to say that using the overflow tube is a bad thing, but I don't think that pressurizing is bad either. After all the FE and the MEL are that way so the Ford engineers thought it Was a good idea. So give this a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTdmD0sQbx4&feature=channel_page

This 292 rocker shaft ass'y hasn't seen oil in many miles of operation.  It's pure stock original.

Those two little tiny holes in the rocker arms?  I had a hard time finding them.  ALL were packed with dirt and varnish.  ZERO oil flowed through these rocker arms (and the shafts were screwed).  All the oil simply drained down the overflow tubes.  The section of shaft that wasn't in the oil path was full of sludge, like heavy bearing grease.

Tim McMaster's video bears compelling witness; it shows plenty of return drain without flooding valve stem towers, at 4,000 RPM.  That's impressive!  Good job, McMaster.

Now that I have new shafts and clean rockers, I will pressurize the shafts, causing positive rocker arm oil flow & healthy (increased) oil system pressure.  By stark contrast to the original method, any piece of dirt (or air) will be pushed out by 45-lbs. of oil pressure instead of lodging forever.

Pressure is produced by restriction to flow. Simply opening the oil to a drain tube is the WORST thing the engine engineers could have done.  Another oil-choked area is the timing chain set.

Dave Dare

Thank you for the vote of confidence on the rocker mods. I assume you will be doing more than just replacing the rocker assemblies on this engine. If your shafts are worn for lack of oil I can only guess that the guides, and the rest of the heads for that matter, have seen better days.

Thank You, Tim.  Your video speaks for itself, and is EXACTLY what I wanted to see.  I am doing a major overhaul on this 292. This is the block (last week):

I just left my my machine shop.  They boiled, magnafluxed, and shot blasted this block.  Today, they bored  the cylinders .060".  They are installing new hardened exhaust seats, and grinding all the valves and seats.  Surprisingly, the guides look pretty good, and so do the valves.  Of course, if I need anything replaced, I will.


I bought it from a guy in Massachusetts who is parting-out his '59 Galaxie.  Being an "unknown" engine, I had already planned to rebuild it before its arrival.  The seller said he drove his Galaxie into the garage, with intentions of restoring the car.  When he found the frame rotted away, he stopped the project and began selling everything off.

My '59 Galaxie has three on the tree; something my wife asked me to convert to automatic.  So, I got his 292 (w/1.9" intake valves), his Cruise-o-matic (that I'm rebuilding in two weeks), brake pedal assembly, driveshaft, and the whole steering column assembly including gearbox and pitman arm.
Here's my Galaxie:

I found a good Elgin ROLLER timing chain set (made in Elgin, Illinois), and a set of oil pump rotors.  Actually, I tried to get some prices from John Mummert; two days ago I called but got a voice mail recording which said all his phones are busy, but please leave a number and someone would call back.  Never happened.  Oh well, I bought my parts now, so, no need.

My next search will be for a 4*-offset cam key.  I'm sure they're out there, I just have to find one.  By the way, all the lower-end parts were beautiful.  Lifters and cam look like new, all the crank pins and mains measure and look great!  The rings had .100"-200" end gaps, oil pump was real 'tired', and the umbrella seals traveled with the stems.  You know about the rocker shafts.  I was very lucky to save the rocker arms, now they are on new shafts, and they feel good.  - Dave

I have been sending people to Dennis for a while now but I have also had a few problems with his NOS stuff lately. Not a bad problem just stuff marked/boxed wrong, it creates a hassle when you go to assemble something and find they have sent you the wrong part and it takes another week to get the right one. (I'm on the left side of the country)  In his defence, they have always replaced the part no questions asked. But it's the time thing.

Beautiful car Dave,

The Y cam key is a little smaller than the chebbie crank key, I have found that you can file an offset key for the Y out of an SBC crank key.  It's not that hard. But remember, 4 degrees on the cam is 8 on the crank.

Even if they look OK I think you should install new Ex valves. There is a couple of guys on this site that can tell you about the regrets of installing used ones.  

In my old Pontiac days, I used to install 6* keys, purchased from Royal Pontiac (dealership in Royal Oak, MI).  Being high school kids, we rarely ran our cars on the expressways, so having the torque curve at low-to-mid rpm was the cat's @$$.  (Especially on Woodward Ave.)

My Galaxie won't be taking too many long trips.  In fact, it only comes out for cruises.  Around town, it makes sense to have lots of low-end torque, especially for a heavy car.

My valves and guides are worn a little.  I'm on the fence.  To do my heads properly (all new springs, guides, valves, exhaust seats, and machine the towers for viton seals), will cost a fortune.  Again, they are marginally worn and I'm on the fence.  This isn't a race car, it's a cruiser.  So, I've decided to keep the guides, install hard ex seats, and grind all the valves and seats.  I am also machining guide towers for viton seals and installing new springs.  I thought of ARP rod bolts, but I nixed that because I don't believe they're worth over $60 ($3.75 EACH BOLT).  The old EBU bolts will do just fine.

It turns out, we had to bore the cylinders .060" which will bring my compression ratio over 9:1.  No block deck or head machining.  I'm real good with that, and I'm good with the 2-bbl it came with.  I don't need 750cu.ft. of air @ 660 ft above sea level (to cruise).

I'm contemplating moly rings, just because they last so much longer.  Most new cars come with moly rings, and they all get 150k miles (at least).  Down the road I'll install a Pertronix ignition.  - Dave

I fully expect my oil pressure will improve, and the rocker arms will squirt oil at 40-psi.  The pressure will keep them clear of varnish and residual dirt.

Head machining is expensive (but necessary).  Heads are the single most important and technical piece of the Y-Block.  They're done boring the block .060", now, it's a respectable 300-cubic inches.  The heads are being machined for hard exhaust seats, the guide towers (to accept viton seals), and all valves and seats are being ground.  New springs were $1.25/ea.

All sheet metal went out for chrome, yes, including rocker covers with the "FORD" emboss, valley cover, down tube, dipstick and tube, and other hardware (generator brackets, side cover, oil filler cap, etc).

I will paint the block black as soon as I get it (and the heads) back.  I can't wait to assemble this engine with moly rings, a real roller chain set, and Clevite-77 bearings.

John in Selma, IN

You asked for opinions, here's mine.  I use the overflow tubes.  That insures a good flow of oil through the shafts to help keep them cool.  The excess oil flowing through the overflow tubes and down the pushrod hole does not overload the stock drain holes in the head, so it doesn't flood the head.  Ford designed the rockers to be "drip" oiled from the oil filled shafts, and I have found that to be fine, even with my 95/250 pound valve springs.  I know Tim, Ted, and others have different opinions, and I will not discount their methods if it works for them. 

Here's my two cents worth.

I have drilled the additional oiling holes in the valley only to be surprised how much oil is actually thrown up out of those holes under full throttle.  I had a clear cover over the valley while dyno testing which permitted me to observe what was happening in this area under throttle.  There’s obviously enough oil to the camshaft without the additional oil holes in the valley but there is some crankcase pressure relief taking place which would allow oil to flow to the back of the block easier and drain to the crankcase via that route.  Without the additional holes, the only pressure relief from the crankcase is happening from the two small holes at the front of the block and the distributor hole cavity.

Although I haven’t seen it happen, the potential for cracking a block down its middle is intensified in a high horsepower application when drilling the valley with a multitude of small holes.

Here’s the picture of the rocker shaft oiling modification posted elsewhere on the site.

And the link to the original thread.

Total agreement on putting the valve spring baffles back in place under the rockers.  They do a good job of directing oil away from the guides especially in those cases where umbrella seals are being used.  This is one item that I always seem to be short of as most core engines I receive do not have these on them.

HoLun,

I’m not aware of any repro spring baffles for the Y but some sifting at the local bone yards in your area should net you a set.  Don’t forget those truck salvage yards as many of those older trucks with the Y used the spring baffles also.  The baffles in the OHV engines (317, 302, 332) are a slightly different design and do not fit the Y.  Unfortunately with the price of scrap iron going through the roof, I picture a good number of the engines that have been sitting dormant for years in these yards heading for the smelter.

The pictured dial indicator is a manufactured piece but I haven’t seen one available in a fair number of years now.  Was originally bought from a firm in Dallas, Texas.  Here’s a pair of more detailed pictures of it.

As far as valve tip variation on a shaft mounted rocker engine, I would consider 0.030” between the lowest to the highest being the tolerance for a grocery getter.   This would be for both the intake and exhaust valves as they are both sharing the same rocker shaft.  Any kind of performance application would dictate a tolerance somewhat tighter than this.

My own valve spring height mic doesn’t accomodates the stock Y guide boss so I share your pain.  But in most instances, I have been machining the Y guide bosses down for other reasons which then allows the conventional height mics to be used.  Unfortunately the I.D. of the height mics is not given in the sales fliers or catalogues so it's difficult to just arbitrarily purchase one of these with the Y head in mind.

I did come across a valve spring height mic that will work on the Y heads with unmodified guide bosses.  It’s steel in construction and the range is 1.800” to 2.200”.  This same company does offer a height mic for a shorter set of ranges but that particular mic does not fit over the valve guide boss on unmodified Y guides.  Here’s a pair of links.

Valve spring height micrometer

Sellers other items including height mic

You’ll have to get with the seller to determine if a custom height mic can be made.  Looking at the height mic that I received for the 1.400”-1.800” dimensions, you can potentially modify the inside threads so that it can slip over the stock guide.  In received form, this particular mic lacks about 0.175” from being fully seated when placed over the stock Y guide.  Looking at the mic, it will take ~0.200” removal of the threads on the outer portion while leaving the outside length dimension as is and then modify the inner portion threads just enough to get your desired minimum valve spring height reading.  Doing it this way will not require any number bias on the outside of the mic.  This will probably make more sense if you’re actually looking at the bottom side of the mic.

The 1.800”-2.200” mic in stock form just fits over the stock Y guide and seats okay.  Any modifications to this particular mic to make it read a lower value will require including a bias with the outside numbers or values when using it which means making modifications to the mic in 0.100” increments to keep the numbers quick and easy to calculate.

As far as bronze guide clearance goes, those are performance minded specs but if the engine ever overheats with the tighter specs being used, then the opportunity for a sticking valve will exist (especially on the exhaust).

Great thought on the potential for bearing issues off of the center main but apparently it’s a non-event as the center main bearing and the #2 and 7 rod bearings do not show any more wear than any other bearings on the Y as a general rule.  The same non-event for bearing wear is also observed on the Ford FE engines where the #2 & 4 main bearings and the #2, 4, 5 & 7 rod bearings do not show any additional wear as a result of oil being supplied to the topend from main journals #2 & #4.  Bernoulli’s Law helps to explain why the pressure drop is not as severe at these particular locations as would be imagined.